clarification of MPI (whey) needed please ...

[firsttimemummy]

As some of you will already know DS (and myself ) get stuffy noses and upset stomachs with cold cows milk.  If the milk is boiled then it doesn't cause the issues, and we are okay with other dairy products.

Can I just confirm (before I ask the doctor to confirm it - paed want to test for lactose intolerence but I really don't think that is the issue) that milk protein intolerence (of the whey) could be the cause ... if milk is boiled it destroys the whey protein, so would, therefore, eliminate the problem/symptoms.  One of my friends said that milk is pasturised to a certain temperature but to destroy other ones the milk needs heated even more.

I have tried googling (dangerous, I know!) and this is what I seem to have gleaned .... I would just love someone to confirm/correct my information before I go to the doctor tomorrow about DS.

Thanks in advance 

[deb]

Casein is the protein in milk; whey is the watery stuff that results when milk or yogurt separate. I've heard about boiling milk to destroy the milk protein but I haven't ever tried it - we culture it instead since we can handle the protein and sugar in yogurt.

If the doctor wants to test for lactose intolerance fine, but I'd also ask to test for casein as well. Even when we add lactase (Lact-Aid pills, for example), we still can't digest milk by itself, at least not as it comes from the store. (Goats' milk, on the other hand...

[LizzieN]

My understanding (could be wrong) is that a lot of people have a lactose intolerance secondarily because an intolerance to the protein in milk causes the GI tract to swell and the release of lactase enzyme comes from the tiny protrusion (villi) in the gut, so their effectiveness is reduced by this....
Long story short I like Deb would be asking for a caseine test too.
xx

[Mashi]

Casein is the protein in milk; whey is the watery stuff that results when milk or yogurt separate.

While casein is the largest protein in milk, it is not the only one.  There are other proteins and whey is one of them. So you can be intolerant or allergic to milk protein and it does not mean it is the casein, it could be the whey proteins.  Casein is more fat soluble and becomes the curd part of dairy products while the other proteins are more water soluble the proteins remain in the whey and are called whey proteins.

Milk protein intolerance is never really distinguished between protein in the milk is the problem, however.  It is helpful to find out if it is a milk protein problem vs a milk sugar (lactose) problem because lactose free dairy products are easy enough to get or to treat your own to break down the sugar).

There are some studies done to show that some MPI people can tolerate milk that has been boiled to a certain temperature, but not all.  Could be a case where involving those who can't have casein vs those who can't whey I guess!  But just because you/your son is reacting to the protein and not the sugar doesn't mean it's the whey, and so doesn't mean that you could hear it enough to break it down....make sense?

[deb]

Thanks, Mashi, I love learning new stuff! All my traditional cookbooks treat whey as the liquid part of the yogurt (I have some draining in cheesecloth as we speak to get out the whey so I can ferment stuff with it), but didn't know about the different proteins being a problem.

[Mashi]

All my traditional cookbooks treat whey as the liquid part of the yogurt

Yep, it is what the whey is, really, the liquid part. But whey it is a liquid full of liquid soluble protein, where the solid curds are full of fat soluble protein which is called casein!

[firsttimemummy]

thanks! really interesting stuff - will let you know how I get on (realised it's Wed we are at the doctor; it is dietician tomorrow; and eye clinic today )

[LizzieN]

Good luck with your appt will be interested to hear how it goes, sounds like you are super busy at the moment!!
xx

[firsttimemummy]

yes - everything seems to always happen at once - at least it's still the school holidays so I am not working!!!

[firsttimemummy]

progress  .... the dietician actually listened to what we were saying (and read the referral letter from the paed that I annotated with ALL the correct informaion!!) - she will speak to her senior but she wants to test for wheat/gluten/celeiac (can't spell it!), pointing out that it isn't just a case of LOs not putting on weight,etc (which was view of paed who completely disregarded it).  She gave us some good advice on what DS should be eating and we will get a follow-up appointment soon regarding skin prick test. etc etc too.  She recommends the lactose-free milk instead of rice/oat milk due to calories, etc so will see how that goes

I know most of this wasn't mentioned in my initial post but sure you have come across my other food-related posts so easiest to put it there.

[deb]

Glad your dietitian listened to you - YAY! I'm curious why she sent you to lactose-free milk without testing for a milk allergy, especially if already testing for celiac, but if it turns out that's all you need to do, then cool.

This had been nagging in my brain for a while as I have a friend whose DD is full-on allergic to a number of foods (including dairy) and I'm always trying to make sure that what we serve at our place is OK for her, and I found this information here: http://classes.ansci.illinois.edu/ansc438/milkcompsynth/milkcomp_protein.html

"There are many whey proteins in milk and the specific set of whey proteins found in mammary secretions varies with the species, the stage of lactation, the presence of an intramammary infection, and other factors. The major whey proteins in cow milk are ß-lactoglobulin and a-lactalbumin. a-Lactalbumin is an important protein in the synthesis of lactose and its presence is central to the process of milk synthesis. ß-Lactoglobulin's function is not known. Other whey proteins are the immunoglobulins (antibodies; especially high in colostrum) and serum albumin (a serum protein). Whey proteins also include a long list of enzymes, hormones, growth factors, nutrient transporters, disease resistance factors, and others."

So there are a bunch of whey proteins - plural! I did not know that! I can also tell you, having worked for an American veterinarian office that regularly sent vets to dairy farms that "intramammary infections" (aka "mastitis," I'd expect) are quite common, at least where I worked.....

[firsttimemummy]

The doctor is going to test for lactose intolerence (going to see him today to clarify if DS needs milk before, and if so, how much before, testing) - also going to ask about casein.  I wondered this morning about the lactose-free milk as I am sure it is not MPI-safe; also going to try UHT milk as that is heated to a higher temperature so may be okay (Assuming it isn't lactose intolerence too he has!!!) ...

thanks for the link - a bit early in the day for my brain to understand it so have book-marked it and will look at it later

[scarlettsmom]

Just dropping off (((Hugs)))) and seeing how dr appointment went?

This is an interesting thread - didn't know a lot of the info provided (thanks Mashi, Liz and Deb!!)   

[LizzieN]

me too you certainly learn new things all the time on here,  Hugs ladies
xx

[Mashi]

Deb, just for your interest - yes, casein is the most likely protein that people are intolerant to in dairy, but whey protein is the most "complete" protein available....it's what protein-loaders like body builders use to get their protein fix, if that makes sense.

  I wondered this morning about the lactose-free milk as I am sure it is not MPI-safe;

No, it's not.  There are two substances in milk that can cause problems for people. One is lactose, which is the sugar in the milk. Lactose free milk has simply treated or removed the sugars to make them digestable for people who can't have lactose.  Lactose free milk is still "milk" which means it has proteins in it.   The only way to avoid milk proteins for those who are milk protein intolerant or milk protein allergic is to not consume it.  (Or drink an formula like Nutramigen or Neocate which has specially treated and partially digested the proteins).

also going to try UHT milk as that is heated to a higher temperature so may be okay

No, UHT milk is not safe for MPI individuals.  What a lovely and easy thing it would be if that were the case though!! (And I suspect the cost of UHT milk would skyrocket!!!) UHT milk is blasted at a temp higher than normal milk is pasteurized, yes, but it's not breaking down the proteins, it's killing the bacteria for the sake of extending the shelf life.  For all general purposes, UHT milk is just regular milk, nothing added, nothing taken away.