3 month old -- WIDE awake at Night!!

[emily3434]

Hi!  I have spend HOURS reading other post about MANY topics, and LOVE this board.  this is my first post, and first major issue with my little boy.'

He is now 3 months, 2 weeks old -- he has been sleeping through the night from 7-7 for well over a month.  he was a terrible short napper, but I stuck it out every day and was able to lengthen his naps, and he now sleeps through them (he was very jerky, and would wake himself up, and couldn't fall back asleep)

We have been doing a 3 hours routine..and recently changed to a 3 and 1/2 hour routine -- he can stay up for about 1 1/2 at a time before crashing. he is very easy to put down to sleep -- and I usually still have to wake him to eat.

this is our routine:

7 am wake/eat/play
8-8:30 sleep -- I am trying to lengthen this awake time....he just can't stay awake for longer
10:30 eat/play
12 nap (again, he can't stay awake more than 1 1/2 at a time)
2 eat/play
3:30 nap
5:30 eat/play
7-7:30 bed

then a dream feed

the past week and a half he is waking around 11 and is wide awake and SCREAMING until 1 or 2.  At first I thought something was wrong with him -- we turned on the light, and he was cooing and wanted to play.  so, no, he was fine.

we have been doing PU/PD and it infuriates him and me, and my husband.  we have done it for a full 3 hours all these times.  I don't feel like he is hungry -- he will of course suck because he is so upset, but isn't taking a meal.

We have tried some accidental parenting and just holding him to sleep...but even then, he is very fitful. 

This is a challenge because he can fall asleep on his own.  to put him down for bed at night and for naps, we do the wind down routine, and drop him in his crib awake, but sleeping, and after 5-10 minutes he's out.  no crying. 

he has always nursed well, and I have plenty of milk.

any ideas on why this is happening? and how to stop it???

no major milestones, illnesses, teething etc.

I don't want this to become a terrible habit.

THANKS!

[Tweakster]

Hi there, have you tried shush/pat instead of PU/PD?  PU/PD is mainly for older babes and it's really stimulating so isn't always the best for every temperament.  Shush/pat is a nice method for the middle of the night.

Keep in mind that LO have many growth spurts in the first year so please don't discount hunger - even if he isn't taking a full meal, if he won't settle but does eat it is probably hunger anyway.  They do so much growing at night!

Is he swaddled?  Does he have a paci?  What are his sleeping conditions like?  Do you use white noise?

[emily3434]

we have been using shush/pat more than pu/pd (if I pick him up we wait until he is completely calm, then another 2-3 minutes before putting him back down).

he does have a paci, -- he will sometimes use it to sleep, and other not.  he is swaddled.  we have just started unswaddling one arm during naps to see how he does with it.  right now his arms are still a distraction on think because he has a much harder time falling asleep with the one arm out and needs more help.

he's in a room by himself -- we run a humidifier with the dual purpose of being a little white noise.

I will feed him at night, but even when I feed him, he is wide awake after I feed, whereas before when he was waking at night to eat he would fall right back to sleep.

he is a very social little boy and love being with us I guess!!

if it is a growth spurt, any idea on how long that would last??  I am thinking about trying to tank him up before bed to see if that helps.

thanks for your help!

[Tweakster]

Hi there, how's it going?  GS can be a couple weeks but typically it's time to revisit routine at the end of one. 

[emily3434]

so, we're at 3 months, 3 weeks -- we've had some good nights, some bad.  we just moved to a 4 hour routine and he does great during the day.  classic 4 hour routine.  at night he is waking every 45 minutes, up until the dreamfeed, and continues until about 1 am.

I have tried putting him to bed earlier thinking he was overtired, and tried keeping him up right until 7:30 thinking perhaps he was undertired.

we have pushed him to stay up for the 2 hours in moving to a 4 hour routine, and he continues to sleep well for naps and doesn't get overtired (even though he gets a little cranky.)

I am just really overwhelmed right now!!! 

he is unswaddled for naps and does great -- we have tried swaddling and unswaddling at night and the same 45 minute waking.

any ideas???

[emily3434]

our 4 hour schedule looks like this:

7:30 wake/eat
9-9:30 sleep (2-2.5 hours)
11:30 eat
1:30 sleep (2 hours)
3:30 eat
5:15-5:30 cat nap )45 minutes)
6-6:15 wake, activity
7-7:30 bed

at 3.5 months, should we extend the catnap? or put him t bed earlier??  I don't know if he can handle being up that late at night because he is waking now ever 45 minutes after being updown.  Or is he undertired??

[Tweakster]

Hi there, I wonder if it's too much day sleep for him.  It sounds like he could be UT actually.  I would probably cap his first nap at 1.5 hrs and then see how he does...he's transitioning really but since he's already on the 4 hr EASY and doing so well it sounds like he's high A times. 

[emily3434]

great idea.  so if I cap his nap at 1.5 hours -- does he have more awake time after?  he can't stay awake for more than 1 hr 45 min - we push it with 2 hours.  so would I feed him when he wakes up from his nap? or wait until the 4 hour mark since he can wait and isn't hungry? (I want him to take a full meal and not snack which is what I felt he was doing on a 3 hour schedule and why I started transition to 4 hours)

if we wake at 7:30, and he last until 9 and sleep for 1.5 hours, he's up again at 10:30. do I do A first, then feed at 11:30 and sleep at 12:30?  that makes it hard to do anything during the day...but I'm willing to do anything.

thanks for your help!

[emily3434]

I think you were onto something.  tonight he was cranky and sleepy around 6:30, so we put him to bed.  he woke 45 minutes later.  we both have major headaches, so we just brought him downstairs to see what he would do.  he was awake, and smiling.

do you think he needs a second catnap in the evening?? or if we limit that first nap, he will go to bed around 7?

[jolerie]

Hi!
Just wondering if you are having any success with the 45 minute Monster as our LO follows the EXACT same schedule as yours and is the same age and is going through the exact same situation with him waking up 45 minutes to the minute after putting him down for the night....
Don't know if its something we can change or just a developmental phase that we have to just wait out???

[emily3434]

I actually have had some success with the 45 minute thing.  we have been transition to a 4 hour schedule...and it turns out, I was giving him a too long nap in the morning.  I cut the morning and afternoon naps to 1.5 hours, with a 45 minute cat nap...and problem solved!!  now he is just waking up after the dreamfeed!!  so we are thinking about not doing the dreamfeed.

try to adjust the daytime sleep....at first I thought maybe he was overtired...but it turnsout he was undertired from too much napping!  good luck!

[Tweakster]

We never did a DF because we tried it for a couple of weeks and he just woke again 2x later in the night...so no point.  We would get our long stretch from around 9-1ish and then he would wake around 1ish and again between 4-5 a.m. 

Good news about the transition!

[emily3434]

jolerie : any luck? 

this is our current routine:

7:30 up/eat
9:30 sleep
11:00 I wake him up
11:30 eat
1:00 sleep
2:30-3 wake
3:30 eat
4:30-5 cat nap
7:30 eat/bed

its more of an EASAE routine because I want to cut down on his daytime sleep...but he can go 4 hours between feeds, and takes a better meal if I wait 4 hours.

by keeping him at 3 or 3.5 I think he was only snacking, and not taking a good feed.

I have also come to realize over the past few days that when he used to wake 30 minutes into his naps, it was because he was overtired.  however, the waking 45 minutes in is definetly undertired for him. 

Wendy:  thanks for your advice!!  yes, we are going to stop the dreamfeed.  before he was able to fall right back asleep, but now that he's a little older and more social, I think its not worth waking him up.  did your kids just stop waking one day for the feeding and sleep through?  I'd hate to start a habitual waking habit with him (which is why I like the idea of the dreamfeed) but its not worth him being awake after and difficult to settle!

[jolerie]

Thats so awesome that you got past the 45 minute Monster at bedtime!  We have transitioned him to the 4 hour EASY for feeds but LO is still not quite able to make it for a full 2 hours of A time so we are doing a modify version of the 4 hour schedule.  Does your LO have any problems staying up the full 2 hours??
The weekend was kind of a write off so we are trying fresh this week but I was also told that his crazy morning naps maybe what was causing him to wake up 45 minutes after BT but he was doing that before as well when he wasn't doing good naps either so maybe its a combination of UT and OT. So hard to figure out...
Hopefully consistency this week and we will see some improvements.
Gives me so much hope to see that it works for you! 

[emily3434]

jolerie -- I feel your pain!  its a challenge to keep him awake for the full 2 hours -- he does better and better each day, but we are careful not to push hum too much so he is overtired.  so if I do have to put him down after 1.5 or 1 3/4, I just make sure I wake him up from his nap 1.5-2 hours after he goes down....in that case, he usually has a little A time before he eats again.  does that make sense?  I think in another week or so he will do 2 hours just fine.  whats going on with his morning naps??  I was letting my guy sleep 2.5 hours (because he couldn't stay up more than 1.5, and the next feed was 2.5 hours away)...and problem solved by cutting that nap down.  its so nice to have the evening!