AWAKE time in the night!

[Liliben]

I really need a plan in dealing with DD's night waking. I had no problems until we started solids just over a month ago which also coincided with an ear infection. Before that we were doing one DF and one night feed and our only problem was occasional EW. SHe always went straight back to sleep and has consistently gone down awake for naps and night time. Constipation has been a problem since introducing solids. At first constant night wakings to do a BM several times a night and now a lot of straining and nothing happens. We are trying to sort this out. I just need some advice in order to be consistent with what I do. We managed to get back to 2 NFs for a short while but we're off track again. We stopped the DF because DD would either wake up earlier than 11 or refuse to go back to sleep for 2 hours if picked up for feed. She's awake at around 12 and then I'd not feed her until at least 4 hours after that feed despit several wus before that. But for over a week she's now waking and staying awake for around 2 hours in the middle of the night. This can begin at around 1am (about an hour after her feed) or around 5am by which time it's then time to get up after 2 hours of fussing. She doesn't really cry, sometimes she can be quite happy and playful, other times just  fussing. I sometimes think it's her constipaton and at other times maybe teething. She soaks her grobag by sucking on it. Last night she woke and had a feed at 11.45. She then woke at 1am. She was quite jolly for a while. I left her for 30 mins then tried teething gel. I left her for another 30 mins and then tried nurofen. When I picked her up she closed her eyes as if desperate to go to sleep. I put her down and she lay there for about a minute before tossing and turning again. After about 2 hours she became quite grumpy and OT and wingeing and eventually fell asleep. She then woke at 5.30 and I BF because I wanted her to get some more sleep. SHe woke at 7am and hardly BF at all. But she was yawing after getting up and I had to put her to bed again at 9am. She would have gone earlier.

I really don't know what to do. She's still in our room and I'd hoped she would be in her room by 9 months when I go back to work. But her rrom is next door to DS (6) and I don't want to disturb his sleep. She generally sleeps well for the first 6 hours and then there's no consistency. Any suggestions. I don't want to get into a habit of AP. For the last week our Angel baby has become grumpy, - OT, constipated, teething?!?

[JackandJulia]

Hello and Big Hugs to you!!!

being awake for so long during the night is horrible and we are going through exactly the same thing!

My lo is 7.5 months old and also only started this when I began her on solids... I am at my wits end because she too is in our bedroom so that she doesnt wake our 2yo and I am back at work so trying to get though the day is horrible!

I have taken her to the doctor twice now and they say there is nothing wrong with her bowels and I have to agree that her little tummy is nice and soft but it just seems funny that everytime she eats a big portion of solids we have hours of awake time at night and she just seems so uncomfortable?

I have a posting up too and will let you know if I figure out whats going on

Stay Strong xxx

[*Kara*]

Hi ladies... starting solids almost always causes some sleep disruption while their digestive system adjusts to the solids.  They essentially have to learn to poop all over again  

What time of day are you giving solids?  For the first few months, it should be just mornings, then mornings and lunch.. most LO's don't move to three meals of solids until the 9-10 month mark

[JackandJulia]

Thanks for that!

I was told to "tank" up my little one to try and get her to sleep longer?? Will def stop giving her dinner if thats why she is so cranky pants!

[*Kara*]

For sure you can "tank her up."  That would be cluster feeding... it is related to breast/bottle though, not solids

[JackandJulia]

So Instead of giving her a meal at 5pm - give her a BF and then after Bath time at about 6:15 give her another BF as normal to go to bed with?

She is at daycare and they are giving her veggies for lunch is this ok or should I be telling them to back off that as well?

[Liliben]

DD is 7.5 months too and come to think of it has got worse since adding a dinner again. HV said she should be on 3 meals after 7 months and 4 rather than 5 daily BF and to start cutting back to 3 BFs at 9 months. Last night woke for feed at 11.45 pm and then slept till 4am. Seemed quite happy for a while (30 mins) and then started fussing. I BF at 5am and she went back to sleep but she woke then every 20 mins though seemed desperate to sleep until I brought her into my bed at 7am and she BF on and off and snoozed until DS woke us at 8am (it's hols here). I really don't want to get into these bad habits - just exhausted. When I changed her nappy there was a marble shaped hard BM so I'm sure the waking must be this. AFter breakfast and as I was putting her down for her nap she seemed strainig to poo but when I ckeck there's nothing there. It's really so frustrating for her and me.

Will try dropping dinner again then along with all the laxative foods I'm trying. Do you do water or BFs after meals? I want to be offering what's best for her. Last 3 days been giving water but still no change. Does anything particular work in the night at all. Should i BF or not? Big hugs.

[*Kara*]

Liliben - I would stop feeding her at night, she is old enough to get through without a feed... or pick one nightwaking to feed and don't feed for the rest if you think she still needs it for now.  A BF baby does not need water, but you could offer it to her and see what happens

Jackandjill - I would drop a dinner feed but lunch should be fine.

[Liliben]

Thanks Kara. Would you not offer any fluids at all after solids? DD at the moment BFs 1 hour before solids. I sed to offer a BF after solids too but have tried water recently. Do you mean 1 night feed between bedtime and morning, - say th midnight feed? I know now she's not waking from hunger because she woke so regularly after that 5 am feed and it's not habit because it's at different times each night. And she's definately tired because she wants to nap. SOrry about the confusion.

[*Kara*]

No worries!  I offer DD water in a sippy after her meals of solids.  She rarely takes anything more than a mouthful to wash everything down though.

I do mean one feed between BT and wake up.  If she is waking at random times during the night, that is likely hunger driven.  It's up to you whether or not you push the night weaning.  She will make up for it during the day if you do go ahead though.

[Liliben]

Hi Kara. I'm not sure if the night wakings are hunger driven really. I've concluded it must be constipation because she can wake as she always has done for a feed at 11pm and then awake again at midnight and either be awake for 2 hours or keep waking every 20 mins. SHe'll do this as well maybe after waking at 4am and I've fed her and then she'll wake at 5am and do the same. SHe seems desperate to seep and does a lot of poo straining. Last night was an improvement. She had her last BF at pm. No catnap so went straight to bed and no dinner. She woke 3 times squirming between then and her feed at midnight. After that she slept through till 4am. I tried to settle her but she obviously wanted a feed. She then slept through till 7am. She didn't feed well then so needs weaning the 4am feed I think. But this was a massive improvement o previous nights. So Im sure the not having dinner has helped as today we've had softer BMs. Just out of curiosity. all EASY schedules from 7 months onwards (and a lot of 6 month ones) are on 3 meals a day. Why do you think?

[*Kara*]

I have found that the ladies over in Britain have a third meal called tea... we don't have that here in Canada   Our health pros recommend holding off until 8 or 9 months for 3 meals, unless your LO is ready for it.  Since it isn't recommended to start solids until after the 6 month mark, I suppose they are thinking a month of one meal, the a month or two of two meals, then onto three per day.  Depends on how well your LO takes to solids really.  Mine had a slow start but is really getting into the swing of it all now - she is almost 7 months, I suspect she will be at three meals by 7 1/2 months

Hmm, could you post a diary of your EASY for the last couple of days as well as what she has eaten/when/how much?  This might help see what is going on a little better

[Liliben]

I think DD would be better off living in Canada, - here in Britain even though recommended not to start solids until 6 months, it's 1 week for one meal, second week two, third three. When you think about it, it must be a massive shock to the system!! DD is doing a lot better since cutting out dinner. This is the last 3 days. Wednesday is more a typical day which is why I've started that far back. Because it's hols here we're not as guided by school run and sometimes are out and about which means DD doesn't sleep as long.
Wednesday

[ZacsMumme]

I offer DD water in a sippy after her meals of solids.  She rarely takes anything more than a mouthful to wash everything down though.

This is what we do in NZ too, BF before solids and offer water afterwards from ~7months.

I too have noticed since DS eats more he gets the odd bout of constipation (which he never got before solids.) When he is constipated I always find we have more NW before it is passed and he doesn't eat much breakie. For us offering him apple and prune juice as his next meal ie lunch and making sure he gets a good BF and a bit of water usually clears it up pretty fast.

I am surprised how fast the UK move to three meals a day. We are on 3 and DS is 7.5 months, but he started solids early (needed pear with his losec) but moved pretty slowly, and only in the last 3 weeks or so has he really started to enjoy food and really want it.

[Liliben]

Sorry must have posted before I'd finished!!!!
Wed
WU/BF 7.00  SOL 8.00 (PORRIDGE / PEAR PUREE 4TBSP SUCKED ON PITTA BREAD/ PEAR)
NAP 9.30 - 11.00
BF 11.15 SOL 12.15 (SQUASH PUREE 2 TBSP APPLE AND BLACKCURRANT 2 TBSP SUCKED ON MELON)
NAP 1.45 - 3.15
BF 3.15
CATNAP 5.15 - 5.45
SOLIDS 5.45 (LEEK, POTATO AND CARROT 2 TBSP NATURAL YOGHURT 2 TBSP SUCKED ON LETTUCE/CUCUMBER)
BF 7.15 BT 7.45
NF 11.45 AWAKE 4AM - BF 5AM THEN WU EVERY 20 MINS UNTIL BF 7AM

THURSDAY
 BF 7AM BUT SNOOZED ON AND OFF UNTIL 8AM
SOLIDS 8.30 (YOGHURT/ APRICOTS 4 TBSP BLW TOAST/APPLE)
NAP 10.15 - 11.30
BF 11.30 SOL 12.30 (CARROTS/POTATPO/CHICKEN PUREE 3 2 TBSP PEACH AND PEAR 1 TBSP)
NAP 2.00 - 3.30
BF 3.30 BF 6PM BT 6.30
3 WU UNTIL BF 11.45 NF 4.45

FRIDAY
WU/BF 7.00 SOL 8.00 (OATMEAL/ APRICOTS 4 TBSP BLW PEACH)
NAP 9.30 - 11.15
BF 11.15 SOL 12.30 (SQUASH, CARROT, PEAR 2 TBSP PEACH/PLUM 1 TBSP BLW PEAR)
NAP 2.30 - 3.15
BF 5.45 BT 6.15
NF 11.45 WU 2.30 - 4.00 NO NF

SATURDAY
WU 6.30 BF 6.45

Sorry if this is confusing. Her bowel movements until Thursday doing 3 meals were like marbles but since we've been pushing the pear and apricot diet and dropped the dinner they've improved apart from overnight. DD had quite a soft BM by yesterday pm but a harder one again overnight. Until we started solids she was on 5 BFs and 1 nf at around 1pm and had been for over a month. When she started solids (1 meal) she was up all night doing several BMs to begin with which got us into the habit of NFs again. I tried then to push this back to 2. Obviously she has managed on 6bfs before and should be able to now that she's started solids so I've been putting it down to constipation or being woken up to do a BM and then struggling to put herself back to sleep. She has always managed to fall asleep independently and put herself back to sleep, we've had to help more with the naps rather than nightime. She has also been lagging in A time always a bit less than recommended. Until last week A time was always 2.25 - 2.5 hours with 2 napsand catnap. Always went down in her cot, has a sort of mantra rattle and woke happy. Others suggested that nightime waking meant she needed to push her A time but everytime we do she shuts her eyes as I'm putting her in her grobag, has been yawning for ages and then wakes throughout naptime or only sleeps 45 mins. I don't see the point in ruining her daytime schedule too. If we put her down 2.25 hours after wu she is happy and sleeps well!! Thanks for looking at my rant Kara.