28 minute waker - is this OT or UT?

[jlsst190]

Hi everyone!

My daughter is 4.5 months old, she is on the 4 hour easy (at least we strive to be), which looks like this:

6-7am (we hope for 7 but never is...) up and eats as close to 7 as possible

7-9 A (plays in gym, talks to me, sometimes in swing etc)

9AM S (Or two hours after wake up) typically goes down very easy, I swaddle downstairs pick up and put paci in and head upstairs to her crib, I hold for maybe 2 minutes and she gets sleepy and eyes start to close, I lay her down. She will fall asleep.

11AM - E

1PM - S

3PM - E

5PM - S (Cat nap) 30 minutes (If we don't get this she is a bear until bedtime!

6:30 - bath/feed (we have had to move this earlier, use to be at 7, but we just don't think she can make it that long to go to bed. Oh and this feeding has been horrible lately, she screams through her bottle. She is on reflux medicine, but I don't think that is the problem, I really think she is OT, but not sure.)

7PM - S 10-10:30 PM dream feed (unfortunately she still wakes at random hours in the night, but we don't feed till morning unless we know she is hungry, she use to sleep consistently through till 5:30, but just has gotten worse over the last month or so.)

So, anyway, you can see we have MULTIPLE problems, but my first one to tackle is the waking up at 28 minute mark for her naps! She has made it straight through before but this is VERY SELDOM if ever. I typically have to go up and reswaddle b/c her arms are out and put her paci in and she will sleep for an additional hour to hour and a half. I just wish she could make it past the 28 minute mark. Is she OT or UT or is this just her natural sleep cycle? (Which I thought was always 45 mins?)

And I may be doing something I shouldn't but I typically go in when she is just talking at 28 mins and reswaddle/pacify b/c I want her to nap and stay on schedule. She typically will start to cry eventually if I don't go to her, should I just leave her be and see if she can get back to sleep without swaddle and paci?

Any advice would be appreciated!

Thanks so much!
(I hope to get this figured out so I can move on to the nights! )

[*Kara*]

There is a growth spurt around the 4 month mark so that could explain why she no longer sleeps through... random wakings are generally hunger based.  I would feed her as quickly as possible and get her back to sleep.  Have you tried not doing the DF one night to see if she still sleeps until a random hour in the night?  I found that my DD would still wake for a NF randomly regardless of the DF, so I just let her wake up when she was hungry.

28 mins is really close to 30 mins... 30 mins is OT.  Have you tried HTTJ or W2S?

Problems with transitioning between sleep cycles is very common at the 4-6 month mark...

I would maybe try shortening her first A time by 10 mins and see what happens...if she is waking at night, her A time first thing will not be as long as "normal" 

[jlsst190]

Thanks for responding...for the night waking, I get so nervous that if I feed her, she will get accustomed to it and start waking every night for it. I just don't want to get into a bad habit with her. (My son slept through with a DF at 12 weeks, so I am always comparing!!)

We have not tried dropping the DF for a night, but we can try that as well.

As for the 28 minute wakings for her naps, I have not been doing the W2S or HTTJ b/c I have a two year old which occupies my time (rather I try to spend one on one time with him during her naps) and I hate to leave him for an extended period of time. However with that said, I will try this and hope that it works so that I can spend her entire nap (uninterrupted) with my son! Which would be great!!

I will try to shorten her A time by 10 mins and see how she does. I guess I assumed at this age she could make it two hours for her A time.

Thanks again! I hope to respond with good news soon.

[*Kara*]

for the night waking, I get so nervous that if I feed her, she will get accustomed to it and start waking every night for it. I just don't want to get into a bad habit with her

I wouldn't worry about that yet... if she wakes at random times, I would assume hunger.

Hope to see your fantastic update very soon!

[Scarecrow22]

Hi. When I was having napping probes got some great advice from Zacsmumme (moderator) among others, and was told 30min naps a classic sign of OT. I would also say that my LO has shorter A times and she is 10mo old...
Am far from an expert (hope sb else comes to my/your aid!) but maybe try and reduce first A, (and do a wind down in crib room too?) and see shat happens?
Good luck
PS love sound of your time together - a really lovely picture of mummy and LO :-)

[ZacsMumme]

Have you ever snuck in at ~25 mins to see how she is waking? I wonder if she is jolting awake as she comes out of deep sleep, if so HTTJ will help hopefully how long have you had the same A time? As PP said if you have increased it recently it could be too long and she is OT.

[jlsst190]

UPDATE!!!!!  Ok, so here is my update, good and BAD news!

On the bad  front, I am very sick, my son has croup and my daughter has yet another ear infection, the last one being only 3 weeks ago!!! So, with that said you might imagine that my house has been crazy! I am EXTREMELY tired and praying for all of us to get better soon, b/c I can't take much more!!! HA!!!

On a good note, let me say this...though my daughter has been a terror with the ear infection, now that she has been on meds for a few days, I do see hope! I reduced her A time by 15 minutes and guess what, she did it!!!! Ok, so not every nap is great but at least one is good. Today so far this is what has happened, we had a bad night, (which will be my next post!!) she was up a lot from 3AM on, so once we were up for good around 6:30, I fed and then had her back down by 8, she woke up talking etc at 1 hr 18 minutes, yeah she did it, but I went up, I gaver her the paci and sh a little and I had to wake her at the 3 hour mark!! (Didn't want to go any longer and keep on schedule!) Then I put her back down for her second nap at 1pm, which was almost 2 hours but she was so happy and not showing signs etc., and she has been asleep for 55 mins so far! Holy heck, two good naps so far, this is super!!! THANK YOU !!!!!

My son is napping now too, so that means this momma is going to take a small nap till one of them wakes me, but I just had to post!

Thanks so much and I hope this continues. (As for the nights, you will be hearing from me VERY soon! I am not sure I can last much longer with the NWs!!!)

Thanks!!! Hugs!!

[*Kara*]

Sounds like things are headed in the right direction!  You may find that once she starts to have longer naps, she will catch up all of her OT buildup and her nights will be much more settled too

[ZacsMumme]

Yippee good work Enjoy your nap

[jlsst190]

So we had a few good naps, but back to waking up early...and her A time is shortened. I wonder if her nights are really messing up everything? Or even her pacifier, it is def. a prop, she will wake up screaming and as soon as I put it in, calm and eyes closed. I am not sure where to go from here, should we take the paci away? Should I post about the nights and see what we are doing wrong?

[ZacsMumme]

You will need to decide if you want to wean the paci, or pop it in at NW until she can replug herself. Zac could replug at 6-7 months. I assume if waking for a replug she wakes ~3 times a night? What was you last 24 hrs EASY?

[*Kara*]

Zac could replug at 6-7 months.

That would have been nice   DD was 10 months!

Have you tried putting her down for a nap without the paci just to see what happens?

[ZacsMumme]

LOL Kara we did do lots of practice

[jlsst190]

Ok, we have not tried not using the paci for her naps, it terifies me!
Our last 24 EASY

6:15 PM Bath
6:30 Bottle and wind down
7PM Put in crib pretty much asleep, then screaming in about 5 mins and inconsolable for the next 45 mins!
 (had three wakings before DF which were scream wakings, not just a replug, we are not sure if this is lingering ear infection issues, reflux issues or OT or what) She is on her last day of meds tomorrow.
10:30PM DF
2:30AM  Up crying, I replugged her
3:05AM  up crying, inconsolable
3:30 finally fed her 4 oz - asleep till 6 or so, not crying so didn't go to her, she was back asleep till 7ish
7:15 E
7:30A
8:45 S (woke at 25 mins, went to her but just kept talking and didn't keep paci in, she finally fell back asleep after 10-15 mins) was up from nap 1hr 45 mins total including waking time
10:30 E
11:00A
12:15 S (up after 23 mins) pacify but again up talking etc, pacified again and went back to sleep until 2 hour mark.
2:45 E
3:15 A
4PM Cat nap 20 mins (in car traveling to nana's)
(while at dinner with my extended family tonight she freaked out, she was crying, screaming, just a mess. When we first got there she was really upset looking at everyone, nobody could hold her, almost as if she had stranger anxiety already!!)We had to leave as soon as we could b/c she was so upset.
6:30 - wind down, bottle and to bed, this bottle was a bit better (but again she fell asleep to her bottler (I know, I know!) and I put her down asleep, she fussed a bit but had paci and settled herself and she has been asleep since...about 1.5 hours so far. We plan to DF her at 10:30 PM and see how the night goes.

I hope that all made sense!!
Thanks again!!!

[ZacsMumme]

Oh hun (HUGS) she sounds like Zac was at that age when his reflux was playing up.
Is your LO on reflux meds, if so what are they and what dose is she on? I really think she is OT due to pain wakings....