Cant get rid of NW's!!

[*foxy*]

Hi

My 15.5mo DD has been waking about 3-4 times a night for 2 weeks now. It all started after a bout of teething when we were staying away, she was very very OT.

Her usual routine is:

Wake 6.30 (but now its more like 6)
Nap 11.30 for 2-2.5 hours
Bath 6.15
Bed 7.15-7.30

She would normally sleep for 11.5 hours but this has dropped to more like 10.5 so she's having quite long days, could this be the problem?
She's waking at 10.30, 11, 11.15 and 1. I try to settle her in her cot which usually works for the first couple of wake ups. Last night I had to pick her up as she was getting really worked up. She's never been great at self soothing but shes so much better than she used to be and we're still working on it.
Any ideas where I should start with gettinng back to lovely lovely undisturbed nights?

[gormella]

Hi,

Trying bringing her bedtime forward  to 7pm and see if that helps?  Night wakings are often just over tiredness so an earlier bedtime can really help in my experience.

[*foxy*]

Hi

Thankyou for your relpy. Last night was pretty bad again. She wakes every night at 10.30 very upset, we've tried pain meds but they dont seem to help. She woke at 4.30 and didnt go back to sleep!!
Shes at nursery today and only sleeps about 30-45 mins there rather than her usual 2-2.5 so thats not going to help. Hopefully she'll be so tired that she'll sleep through?? Wishful thinking?!?
Then Ill put her to bed early tomorrow as well. 2 naps never seem to help, they just make things worse.

[gormella]

hi

ive studied childrens sleep quite extensively and read that children naturally wake up 4 hours after deep sleep after going to bed. I have found this true of my DD, but she soothes herself back to sleep without assistance. If you are going to her at 10.30 to comfort her/ see what's wrong, it could have started a habit where she wakes at this time and expects you to come and see her?

If they are tot overtired they will only wake more at night.  the best advice I can give is definitely the early bedtime and a good daytime nap. sleep begets sleep, so the more nap in the day, the better the night sleep.

I'm no expert, just passing on my research from lots of books!!

Good luck!

[*foxy*]

Thanks, that's helpful. She's had about 1 hour 40 at nursery today which isn't as much as she usually has at home but much much better than the 30 mums she's been having there recently. She went to sleep at 7 tonight which is half an hour earlier than last night and she's at home all day tomorrow so hopefully she'll have a good nap.
When she wakes at 10.30 we don't go into her straight away we normally see if she'll settle on her own then if her cries get more desperate we go in and try and settle in her cot. We only pick her up if we really need to. How do we break her out of this habit?

[gormella]

hi

With regards to breaking the 10.30 habit, I always do the same as you too, wait to see if she settles herself if the crying is hard and distressed.  I think that she knows that you will go in and see her if she keeps it up so the only answer would be to not go in if you know in your heart of hearts nothing is wrong, it's just habit. 

This is really hard as I found recently with daytime naps. I simply HATE leaving my DD to cry, it tore me apart so much and I would hover by the door but after a few days (5 I think)  I found that she would cry between 5 mins and up to 20 mins at the most and then go to sleep.  The 20 mins is a well documented common crying duration. If she was still crying after 20 mins I would go to her and get her up and cuddle her as she had really worked herself up by now.  lots of people don't feel they can do this and it is hard, but I knew my DD was just shattered and OT and wanted to sleep and the crying was a result of wanting to sleep as I know her different cries. 

Keep up the early bedtime if she seems tired late afternoon, it works wonders.  I gave my DD an early bedtime last night after she melted down all afternoon and she's still asleep after 7am!

Hope some of this helps in some way. Like I always say, what works for one babe doesn't necessarily work for another.  MY DD is an amazing, happy, fun little girl who is so interested in things generally but without her good sleep, like any human, she gets niggly!

[*foxy*]

Thankyou for your post. We had one good night after she'd been at nursery all day, she had 1hr 30 which is pretty good. Then asleep by 7, no wake ups but up at 6am.
Yesterday she would only sleep again for 1hr 30, she was sleep by 7 again but woke at 11, 1 and 4.30 then up at 7. So if she wakes at night do you think we should wait it out longer? she gets very upset. I'm so tired that at 4.30 she ends up next to me in our bed at the moment.
Today she's had 2hrs 30 and my dp is currently doing the bedtime routine. I'm so tired and dreading tonight. We're away for Christmas so I can't see her catching up, it'll be the opposite! Maybe a new place with lots of very enthusiastic relatives will tire her out and reset her system?!

[skatty]

Sorry to interrupt but leaving a baby to cry for up to 20 minutes is definitley considered cry it out here and Tracey Hogg was vehemently opposed to that so not something we discuss or encourage on these boards 

[ZacsMumme]

Hi foxy, as Katt says leaving a baby to cry by the clock is very much CC and against The BW philosopphy. I know it can be so hard, NW at this age become so much more frustrating and LOs can be very demanding! However, there are other methods to teach your child to sleep, rather than leave them and that is what we can help you through should you want this

Here are some links for you.
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=80750.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=63896.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=65903.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=80822.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=222260.0

[Khalam's Mama]

I agree I wouldn't leave her to cry based on time. If sh is upset you must go to her straight away. But do listen and make sure she is awake. Dies she get more upset when you go in? if so i would listen a little longer as I found sometime DS would cry out still half asleep and if I went in and disturbed him he would get more upset. ONce he was awake and crying for me I went in straight away though. Does she sleep independently at naps/BT?
I wonder if she needs her nap cut from the 2.5hrs? She does sound OT but this may be because she is having long days and so many NW but may stem from too much day sleep. I would go with EBT (which to me is at most a 12hr day so 6pm if she is waking at 6am).
I find my DS1 will sleep a long nap and then be UT at BT but ends up OT from a long day and short nap overall if that makes sense. At the moment we get 11-12hr nights on a 7pm BT but 13-14hr night with a 6pm BT because he isn't OT (we don't nap now). I find if he needs more sleep he will take it from an earlier Bt but he is so used to waking at a certain time in the morning that he just can't sleep in so wakes tired.

Any thoughts about the links and suggestions from PPs?

[*foxy*]

Hi

Thankyou for your posts. We stayed away with family over Christmas for 4 nights and for 2 of those she STTN! We are now back home and last night she STTN too. She is currently waking at between 6.30 and 7, has a nap at 12-2/2.30 and then is asleep between 7-7.30. She isnt an independent sleeper yet, we're working on that now that we're back home. Ill definitely have a good read of the teaching independent sleep link because we need to get on top of that!

[Khalam's Mama]

That is great. What do you think worked?