Long lasting NW and teething: became short lasting NW but often!!

[Aylaa]

Hi everyone

It has been a long time since DD is 8 months that sleep has been ok for a couple of week s and then chaotic for a couple of weeks... She is been teething a lot on and off.
Usually she STTN , then start teething and has NW for a couple of weeks then we have to sleep train ( WI/WO ) then we go back to STTN. , then teething again.
So I have been hanging here quiet often to follow you good advices

She is now 17 months doing her canines .
Thé problem:

She is doing very long NW randomly .. From 12 to 2 or 3 to 5
It is taking forever to put her back to sleep... Even when we APOP
we suspect pain from teething even if we aren t sure 100%..
usually we give her medication for pain.
Still takes 1:30 at least to put her Back to sleep with APOP !!

She seems to try hard to fall asleep, lying closing her eyes for 4 minutes, but she stands up and cry to call us back. I do Wi/wo at first always.

At bed time she falls asleep easily. For her nap mostly too, I sometimes need to do Wi WO .


Her routine was:
5:45 ( or 5:15) WU
11:30 - 12:45 nap
6:15 Bed time

Now she does WU later to catch up the 1:30-2:00 NW at
6:45 WU
12:15-13:00 nap then APOP to put her back to sleep sometimes it works
13:00-13:30
19:00 bed time

Random NW lasting 1.30 or 2 hour
I end  up putting a mattress next to her after 1:30 of WiWo I just lye there until she falls asleep.

What should I do ?
Is it realy pain?

[Mama2C]

How long has she been doing this? Is it every single night? It could be an OT/UT issue...OR in our experience, DS would have these extended NWs during his teething...and I'm sorry to say that they would happen on/off until his tooth came in no matter what kind of meds we'd give him. The canines and molars were really really hard on my DS.

[Aylaa]

Now it has been 2 weeks she is doing this :-(
It seems that since she was 8 months she did almost non stop teething... like 2 weeks teething 2 weeks break 2 weeks teething etc..and every time we have to sleep train her again after a teething episode.
It is not every single night, sometimes, there is one night she would sleep through...

So I have a real hard time telling if she is in pain, (she doesn't look in agony at all, just disturbed enough to not be able to find her sleep).
So if I calculate how much  sleep she gets, it is between 10:15  to 10:30 wich is less then when she used to STTN.

How can I tell if she is in pain or if she is playing me?
She has all her teeth except the last 4 molars I tink it is quiet a lot for her age, is it?
The canines are not toatally out though.

During the day she seems normal, maybe frustrated more easily.

How could I tell if it is a OT/UT loop?

[Kay Dee]

Hiya, I think the short nap could be causing the problems. She has a long afternoon which is probably making her a bit OT by bedtime. Do you medicate before the nap if you suspect teeth? Can you try a longer A time in the morning? If you push the nap out to 12.30/45 you should get a more solid nap and the later WU from the nap will make her A time to bed shorter helping any bedtime OT.

HTH!

[Aylaa]

Hi there ;-)
I count like this
5:30 A time after WU in morning and in afternoon.
So in my routine when I say 19:00 bed time it is after a 1:15 nap ending at 13:30.

Do you think it is too long 5:30 of A time in the afternoon?
How long so you suggest A time in the morning and in the afternoon?
We thought recently that she needed a longer A time (6:00) in the morning.

She has always been a short napper 1:15 is the max we get from her, since a long time, she has always been a "small" sleeper

I never medicated (except homeopathic) before the nap cause she doesn't look in pain. I should maybe try that!

[Kay Dee]

Hey, my DD has always been a short napper too, so much she dropped it at 18months  But even with her low sleep needs I found I had to really balance things to prevent OT. When she was still napping a 6hr morning A and 5hrs to bed seemed to work best. Might be worth a shot for you?

[Aylaa]

Wow 18 month and no more nap!!! Oh my, oh my!!
I could give a try with the 6 A time in morning and then 5 A in the afternoon.

It is hard to get things done when they are low need sleepers!!!

[Kay Dee]

I know! There's no break in the day for me any more. I miss it!!!

[Mama2C]

My DD (who is now 5) was a short napper but we got great nights from her. She would wake at 7:30, nap from 1-2:15 and in bed by 7:45. I found the later nap to work better than an earlier one as mornings were easier for her to handle than afternoons. Have you tried a later nap?? If she wakes at 6:45, nap at 12:45...perhaps she will even nap longer with a 6hr A time?? Then try for a shorter, 5hr-5.5hr, afternon A time?

[Aylaa]

Hello

I think that is what I should do!! Longer A morning time!
Yesterday we went to visit some family so.. she had a "special day" routine.

6 WU
10:30-11.00 nap in the car
15:30 (i tried to pu her to nap, she looked tired.. but no success)
19:00 she started her night in the car
20:00 I transfered her in her bed she kind of half woke up
22:00 NW took 2 minutes to put her down.
6:00 WU

[Kay Dee]

Not a bad night! She should be well rested and able for the longer A time this morning

K x

[Mama2C]

Wow - a good night's sleep all things considered. I hope today goes well! Let us know!!

[Aylaa]

Hi everybody, thanks for the support!!

Last night was bad...

So yesterday routine:

6:00 WU
12:15-14:15 Nap (i woke her up... it is the first time in her life she took such a long nap... I woke her up caus I got scared she would not sleep at night...)
7:30 Bed time
8:30 NW
9:30 NW
10:30 NW
11:30 NW
2:30 NW
5:30 WU.... couldn't put her back to sleep.. she wouldn't even with APOP...
So it is a 10 hour night with lots of NW...

Every time she went back to sleep quickly... she asked for her teeth pain gel...

I don't know what to think anymore..
This morning she is grumpy
Now she must be OT + in pain..

What should I do?
When should I put her down for nap? Edit: I put her down at 10:30 ( she fell quickly asleep) woke up at 11:50

When should I put her to bed?

Yesterday I tried to watch for tiredness signs... I didn't see any! Maybe I put her to let for her nap ?
 

[stardust599]

I think last night was a bad night due to a combination of OT and teething.  I sometimes give a dose of Nurofen during a really bad night.  I also give Nelsons Teetha chamomilla powders which really calm LO and help her to sleep.  I find them more effective than gels etc. as the gels only work just long enough for my LO to fall asleep and then wake screaming in pain an hour later!  We have 12 teeth (8 front teeth plus 4 front molars) and seem to be teething the second set of molars now, this is the worst time we've ever had with teething.

If she has woken at 11.50 I would try a catnap (20mins) by APing late in the afternoon to get her back on track or I would bring bedtime forward to 6pm to prevent too much OT.  Only you know what will work for your LO though, I know if my LO had the late afternoon catnap it would make her worse than the early bedtime.

Sometimes my LO doesn't show any tiredness signs during the day and seems happy but I find that if I put her down in the cot and leave her for 20-30mins she will fall asleep anyway.  If A time is approaching 6hours I would definately try to put down.

My LO is 16 and a half months now, we have as many NWs as you but we get a long nap each day plus an EW!  It's so hard to get it right as each LO is so different and sometimes it's just trial and error.  If something isn't working after a week try to tweak it and try again.

[Kay Dee]

Sorry, you had such a bad night

Looking at the positives, you pushed out the A time yesterday and got a super nap. That's great! But that resulted in a very unsettled night. Now, personally I don't think it's OT as she had a longer nap than she's used to so it's very unlikely she ended up overtired after it. I think it's more likely she was unsettled last night from being undertired from such a good nap. So I think the A time was good, but she needs a shorter nap.

Since she seems to be at the low end of sleep needs, I would probably not offer a catnap today as I think it could cause her problems, and instead keep the afternoon very quiet and get her to bed nice and early.

Then tomorrow, assuming she has a better night and sleeps later (fingers crossed!), try the longer morning A time again but cap the nap at 1hr 30mins. This is still longer than she usually naps so she should be fine on it, but hopefully won't result in such an unsettled night. I think it will take a bit of trial and error to find what nap length will suit her, but it does sound like it will be a good bit less than 2hrs.

What do you think?

x