Support for dropping the nap-part 6

[barbaraz78]

I was surprised just how quickly he would go down after a late nap

I also noticed that, from 2.5 yo, for us the single A times between sleeping are less important than the overall A of the day and the length of the nap. I mean, if the nap is later or earlier this doesn't affect F night, because if it is later he is tired for the long morning A and so he needs less A in the afternoon (which is what usually happens). On the other hand, when he goes to sleep earlier (it happened few weeks ago when we were coming back from holiday, he went to sleep in the car after 4 h in the morning and slept for 1.5 h ), then the afternoon A is longer and he has time to tiring up at bt. I guess they are becoming more similar to us while growing up.

[Truly Blessed]

I was surprised just how quickly he would go down after a late nap when I actually started watching him instead of guessing based on a magic A time I thought he would need. I guess it's like me falling asleep on the sofa at 8pm and waking up after half an hour. I wouldn't need hours and hours before BT, I could probably just go and get ready for bed and have a hot drink and then go back to sleep at BT. It seems to work like that for cadan anyway.

This is so interesting Honey. Clarirebear always tries to encourage me to give Sam a much later nap because the am over rides the pm but for Sam it has never worked, although I haven't consistently tried it because the mess we get in from even one day ending up with a 10/10.30 BT YK 

But I do know it works for some LO's like Oliver when they are younger. However the more I learn about the 1-0 I am coming to the conclusion that as long as the LO's don't have a late nap every day and it is just impromptu late (sofa/car) naps then they will go down at the same BT.  It is the irregularity of them that makes it possible IMHO.

Wow! super.My IRL friend's Lo started to refuse naps sometimes at Sam's age and so she just let him lie down on the sofa when he wanted to in the afternoon or car nap uncapped. He would have a nap at 5pm for an hour and still go down at 8pm for BT.

Which holds true to this.

So my update is Sam slept 12 hour 45  his firs super CU in months, he was up at 6.45. Today is Nana's day so my Mam is giving him his 3rd no nap day with BT after 11.5 hours. yesterday this was perfect so  we will try it again.

Can I please just boast about my little fella  This morning we had a cuddle and I talked to him about BT last night and how happy I was and how clever he was and he sat there all pleased with himself with his little animated face. So when we went downstairs he said "Watch me Mammy...I will be you. Sammy have a little sleep now please!" then he lay down on the sofa and did a fake snore. Then he jumped up and said "Wow look at me Mammy, you told me to sleep and I did, just like that and now I am Super Sam with Super energy!!!"

Now forgive me if I am wrong but our little fella is so switched on sometimes for just having turned 2.5  LOL He catches on quick and picks up on every single thing I say. Best watch those naughty words eh  LOL.

Vicki.x.

[clairebear79]

Clarirebear always tries to encourage me to give Sam a much later nap because the am over rides the pm but for Sam it has never worked, although I haven't consistently tried it because the mess we get in from even one day ending up with a 10/10.30 BT YK 

But I do know it works for some LO's like Oliver when they are younger. However the more I learn about the 1-0 I am coming to the conclusion that as long as the LO's don't have a late nap every day and it is just impromptu late (sofa /car) naps then they will go down at the same BT.  It is the irregularity of them that makes it possible IMHO.

This is probably quite true.  I'm sure as we get further into the 1-0 we may find we can't do it anymore.  But bear in mind though, we're not doing super late naps, he naps at 1pm (which is a pretty standard naptime for a lot of kids) for 2-2.5hrs, and then he's in bed by 8pm, goes to sleep when he's ready.  Even if he naps for 2.5hrs, he will sometimes be asleep at 8.10pm, just over 4.5hrs A time, which totally amazes me - I never thought he'd do that.   But having a consistently longer morning means he is well ready for bed & he sleeps well.  I think the crucial thing for us has been accepting he still needs that nap (I've concluded we've not started the 1-0 after all!),  but that if he has it he won't be needing a 7/7.30pm bedtime anymore.  Chopping the nap to make him 'fit' into a routine that we wanted (i.e. earlier BT) just ended with him being an OT wreck. 

Anyway glad he pulled such a great night!  And boast away  he is a clever wee man!!!

Mama_C - I have to admit that knowing M's history I also wondered about his NW's being UT, maybe now he is getting more used to the no nap days he can cope with being awake a wee bit longer.  I think its a good idea to stretch his days slowly, just add 15-30mins & see how he fares with that.

[Truly Blessed]

LOL were your ears burning Sweetie 

 

[Erin M]

Just dropping off some (((hugs))), transition is so hard.  It has been so long since I did this with my girls, but I do remember that short naps were what got us through the crazy OT days.

[gilly37]

Hi everyone, well it seems that I'm in the same boat as all of you here so hopefully I can join in your thread and get some advice. LO is 32 months and for a while now she's been EW, NW multiple times a night, and refusing naps altogether then falling off her feet at 4pm!

The lovely Sammysmammy replied to my desperate post the other day and directed me to this thread so here I am. This morning my little treasure woke up at 5.28am for a pee, but of course she wasn't for going back to sleep at that hour, so that was it, up for the day! This was after a BT of 8.20... She did NOT enjoy soft play today and I had to drag her away, quick lunch and she slept in the car 1.15-2.10. Even this 55min nap is probably going to be enough for another late BT tonight, I just think should I just scrap the nap like all of my friends seem to have done with their LOs, and she'll get used to it soon enough?? Why don't any of them seem to have the sleep problems I do??

Biggest issue for us is that I'm starting university full time as of 17th Sept, and she'll be in a combination of my mum's house (who goes with the flow) and the childminder's (where LO has to go with the flow)    I fear it's all just going to get worse, it'll be an OT/UT nightmare...

[*Ali*]

Welcome Gilly. On days with an EW I often AP a 30-40 min nap in the car (or put down really early if she will go) around 11am and then it doesn't seem to affect BT. Does she go to sleep independently? If you frequently get EWs, have you tried a gro clock or light on a timer? Otherwise I would just distract her as long as you can and then do a long wind down with bath and stories and have her in bed asleep by 6pm.

[cath~]

Hi Gilly,
I second the gro-clock suggestion. Without it, I'm sure she would be up at crazy o'clock each day. But now, even if she wakes early to pee (or for whatever reason) she always goes back to bed without protest and dozes/sleeps until the sun comes up (whether that's just for 5 mins or still an hour or more away). I was amazed at how well L took to it when we started using it.

[roseola]

 Welcome Gilly! Although I bet this is a thread you'd rather not be a part of 

Vicki, how long has Sammy been transitioning? I trying to find a light at the end of the tunnel, hoping things eventually get better for everyone!

[gilly37]

We've had a gro clock since she turned 2, it doesn't work with her at all. She's extremely strong willed and if she wants to get up she'll get up unfortunately, regardless of what the clock or I say... We tried it for a few weeks, constantly putting her back to bed and whispering that the sun wasn't up yet, she understands the concept completely but just chooses not to follow it. We had screaming at 5.45 in the morning which wasn't ideal so we ditched it. Then we tried it again a few months ago, it was the same again, she gets the idea but it's like she just says does my mum think I'm daft, I'm getting up! She has blackout blinds too but it doesn't seem to matter if it's pitch dark, when she's ready to get up that's it, the whole house is up.

[*Ali*]

If she wakes at a similar time each morning and you think it's habit, what about wake to sleep?
How early would she nap?

[gilly37]

The only thing about WTS is that if she needs to pee she'll probably end up waking up at her usual time anyway, or worse, wake up completely when I do WTS because she needs to pee. Maybe I could lift her in for a pee when I'm going to bed... I don't know!

She'll nap early if we go out in the car, but she won't be able to do that at the childminder, and my mum doesn't drive (not that she would ever follow any instructions of mine...) so I'm at a loss.

Ugh sorry to sound so negative!!

[*Ali*]

Gilly, It's ok for her to wake and go for a pee when you do w2s, She should just be more tired to go back to sleep at 4.30 than 5.30.
What time was she napping before she started refusing? Could you try a later nap but keep it shorter?

Also, I meant to ask, Vicki in particular but anyone who can answer, when you talk about APOP at BT, what do you actually do? I don't really have any APOP to do at BT with Cadan.

Vicki, Sammy sounds adorable and very clever. 

Cadan, made me sad the other day after his late nap. He called me back at BT for a pee and when I tucked him in again afterwards he said "Nobody wants to sleep with me mummy"  and then he asked me to sleep with him. I said we all sleep in our own beds and there wasn't room me in his bed and he shuffled right over and said "There's some more space there". Oh it was so sad. I told him I wished I could sleep in there with him and we just snuggled while I kissed his cheek and stroked his hair. Then after a bit I said it was sleepy time and he settled down happy as larry as if he accepted it was how it should be. Bless his cotton socks. 

[Mama_Mia]

Mama_C - I have to admit that knowing M's history I also wondered about his NW's being UT, maybe now he is getting more used to the no nap days he can cope with being awake a wee bit longer.  I think its a good idea to stretch his days slowly, just add 15-30mins & see how he fares with that.

Thanks Claire, I actually tried that yesterday and kept him up for 15 minutes longer than normal and he mostly sttn. He woke at 4:30am for a drink but then slept through until 7:30 when I woke him. So I am going to keep at it and see what happens. He's mostly doing 2 no nap days then a nap day now.

Also, I meant to ask, Vicki in particular but anyone who can answer, when you talk about APOP at BT, what do you actually do?

I seem to always have to APOP BT on nap days. Every night I rock him while he drinks his bottle. Yes I know bad to still have a bottle. Anyway when he finishes he hands me the bottle then we rock for a min and he goes to bed and sleeps on his own. On nap days, I pretty much do the same thing but after putting him in his crib I have to keep a hand on him through the bars until he settles down. Usually 15-20min

[confusedmummy]

Hi ladies, thanks for advice so far. Yesterday was horrible. It was my FIL funeral, and as people were coming from a distance I assumed they would leave early to avoid traffic, thereby allowing me to get Charlie to bed early. But no even after I told everyone I was picking Charlie up early to have him in bed for 5.30 they decided to come back to the house (fine) but they didn't get there till 5.30 and didn't leave till nearly 7. So after the battle to get my exhausted boy up to his bedroom, he didn't go to sleep till 8. As expected I had NWs and now he has woken at 5.25 put his light on and is playing and calling me in room. So he has had 9.5 hrs sleep on his fourth no nap day.

I don't know how to get him out of this massive OT spiral. He is waking earlier and earlier and I need to get him to a later WU, I just don't know how? It frustrates me that I have a plan in my head but no one but me wants to stick with it so unless I'm on my own with him it doesn't work. DP has promised to take to park for picnic and massive play, and swimming which means that he will probably not get a nap or at least not an early or long one, and BT will be a push to get early. What to do for the best, I just don't know anymore. DP so unhelpful and unsupportive, he just says he's a child he'll wake when he wants to wake, doesnt realise if we don't help with right BT etc that it will just get worse. He just thinks a nap today will solve it I'm at wits end, 10days till due date and I can't see an end x

Great, now DP has decided that he will go into his room and play with him till his sun comes up, marvellous, just as I am trying to get him to independently stay in his room till its time to get up DP does something stupid. What he doesn't understand is that when he goes back to work, 4 out of 7 mornings/nights I have to deal with this not him