Breaking OT cycle - 8mos

[Jessleigh]

I put her down at 6. Slightly scared about EW but would you say it's better to put down early then giving her an additional CN and putting her down later? I was tempted to do that...but i know i need to drop the CN.

[ZacsMumme]

You totally did the right thing hun FXed for tonight.
Its going to be hard but she needs those A times upped as you seem to know anyway The CN has to be a thing of the past or what will happen is the cycle will just continue.
Hopefully you get a 11hr+ night even with some NW that will give you a ~5.30 start to the day worst case (hopefully) and then you can do a 9am nap (3.5hr A)

If you get somehting like that I would then go for a 3.5hr A again if you get an hour long or loner AM nap

[Jessleigh]

You totally did the right thing hun FXed for tonight

Thanks for the reassurance!

We had an ok night 3 NW's one of which lasted about an hour (with on and off almost sleeping).

THen she woke at 5:20 but went back to sleep til 5:50! I was happy about that one.

So i went for 3.5 hrs A. She seemed to handle it pretty well!

Put her down at 9:15 but alas, she woke at 9:45 (I wasn't here to resettle, so DH got her up after letting her try to settle for about 10mins).

Just put her down again after only 2hrs of A (as the last few times that has gotten me a good nap after a 30min nap).

We'll see! Regardless, she'll most likely need another CN.

I guess I just keep holding the 3.5hr A time for a few day? (given the nights aren't awful?)

[ZacsMumme]

i would really stick with the 3.5hr A and try to resettle if you get a short nap, or as you have done do a short 2hr A time following the short nap and hope for a good PM one.
Yes you may need to do a CN if you get another 30min nap. And go for EBT too if you think its helping

[Jessleigh]

really confused by her.

yesterday did 3.5 hours, got 30mins couldn't resettle. 2hrs from that gave me a 50min nap. (she had stirred at the 20)

This am she was extremely tired. was up for 1.5 hrs in the middle of the night.

DH put her down at 3hrs A because she was falling asleep on him. She stirred at the 20, the 30 and then was up after 40mins.
Was this OT or UT? Seems OT by the way she was stirring but really not sure. Woke crying.

[Jessleigh]

Thankfully i'll be home in the morning the next few days so i can push the A. DH doesn't know her sleepy signs as well. He says she probably could have gone another 15. So hard to tell with bad nights.

On another note, tooth #3 just poked through so that explains a lot. She's been throwing tantrums all day lately (she's never done this! Not even with the first 2 teeth!). She arches her back, trying to throw herself out of my arms, does the same on the floor. on and off all day. even when's she's fed, dry, and napped. New experience for us! But the naps have sucked lately so that's part of it, too.

Anyway...here's to another day!

[ZacsMumme]

Ugh teeth mess with sleep so bad, hopefully that was half the problem! I would give pain meda before a nap and see if ha helps her settle. X

[Jessleigh]

Not sure what this means...

She had a great night sleep thanks to baby tylenol (i had tried every other homeopathic option). 6:45-7:15 with a 30min wake-up from 4:15-4:45 but no crying, then again at 6 but i fed her and she went back to sleep.

So i did the full 3.5 hrs A. She did well. Just cranky from teething i think but not rubbing eyes or acting tired. I gave her tylenol again 30mins before nap. She Started yawning at 3hrs 15. I went for a stroll outside. did the WD and she was asleep wi 2mins of being put down. It seemed like perfect timing!

Then she jolted at the 15 and the woke up after only 25mins. Tried to resettle. Even attempted APing by nursing her since our feeding was off this am. nope. shes' up.

What's with a 25min nap? is this still OT? and should i just keep doing what I'm doing?

almost lost it again when i went in to resettle her...wanted to cry, but i held it together. I guess I'm just gonna have to be ok with my short napper for the time being.

[Jessleigh]

So then i tried my 2hr trick and for the 2nd day in a row it didn't work. even though she was yawning.
I thought she was asleep at first (her head was turned but she was lying very still) then 2mins later she wsa on her belly doing pushups. She called out to me, i went up and she was playing. so i thought, maybe she wasn't tired. decided to wait another 30. She was happily playing so that turned into an hour.

so at 3hrs A time since the 25min nap i tried again. screaming. i stayed in the room with her for 20mins but the screaming wasn't coming to an end any time soon. so (beside myself) i popped her in the stroller. so 3.5 hrs of A time later she took a 30.

seriously? Almost the exact same thing happened yesterday. Is she afraid of her crib all of a sudden? Does she really need a huge A increase suddenly for some reason?

She's still not crawling yet, but trying more lately so maybe that part of it?

Really any thoughts would help me at this point. I'm totally confused and feel like i don't know this girl anymore which makes it extra hard.

Yesterday's EAS

WU - 6:15
A - 3hrs (rough night and DH thought she was ready)
S - 9:15-10:25 (40mins nap with stirring at the 20 and the 30)
A - 3hrs 5mins(I tried at 2hrs, then at 2.5hrs, i picked her up to hold her to sleep and as she was dozing she burped and actually threw up her lunch.  I freaked out but she has no fever and really wasn't acting sick so i thought i was maybe just an air bubble or eating too much and then crying?? Regardless, i cleaned up and then held her to sleep)
S - 1:30-2 (30mins nap)
A - 2hrs
S - 4-4:30 (30mins stroller nap)
A - 2hrs 15mins
BT - 6:45 (out pretty quickly and easily)
DF - 10
NW - 4:15-4:50 (no crying but i heard her and she was on her belly stuck against the side...she's a back sleeper. then she was pushing up so i though i'd go in and feed her back down before she woke up too much but no letdown after 20mins of her suckling. so i put her back in bed and luckily, even though her eyes were still wide open, she went back to sleep
NW - 6 (i fed her back to sleep)
WU - 7:15 (yay!)

So not a bad night after only 3, 30min naps

Today so far

WU - 7:15
A - 3hrs 3mins
S - 10:45-11:10 (25min nap)
A - 3.5hrs (attempted at 2hrs, then at 3hrs, finally took her on stroller nap)
S - 2:40-3:10
nursed her upon waking and she was dozing so i thought i'd get her back to sleep. Popped back in the stroller.
30mins of staring. and almost dozing, then,
S - 4:05-4:20 (15mins) woke for 10 then
S - 4:30-4:45
GOing for a BT of 6:45 tonight

So. What am i doing wrong? Maybe i'm trying to hard to get this right.

sorry the info overload. i would just love to feel like i'm making progress and every day it seems like something totally throws me for a loop.

[ZacsMumme]

Hugs, I'm going to see if I can get fresh eyes for you sweetie

[Jessleigh]

thanks. might just be an odd week?

she just did another 55min nap and 25min nap. Odd that 5mins seem to be cutting out of the cycle lately.

[skatty]

I had very similar sort of troubles around the same age, it was a nightmare and although teething definiteley took some blame I reckon some of it was just developmental, they really have so much going on at this age  One thing I found is that my dd was easily OT but she still needed a decent A time to get her a nap god enough to help overcome it which sounds totally screwed up  You could try a longer A time in the morning and see if that gets you a longer first nap or you could limit that first nap to 30 mins in the hope you get a better 2nd nap but if you do get bad naps I think at this age trying an early bedtime can work better than a third nap, I know that can be scary but it is worth trying to find out of you have a LO that will tag on to their night sleep. If you have a good night with a later wake up like the day she woke at 7.15am it may be a good idea to push the A times out and see what kind of naps you get and then if the worst comes to the worst you could do an early bedtime that is not extreme like 5.30pm. Good luck, for many it is like one big experiment at this age 

[becj86]

Just wondering if these short naps are extreme UT or overstimulation or some combination of the two. DS was doing nearly 4hr A when he turned 8 months... that's high, but I think at 9 months 3.5hr A is pretty average. OS can look like OT in that LO gets super happy - squeals, shrieks, etc. and most people will think LO is extremely happy but LO is OS. Big tight hugs and lots of body contact can help dissipate the OS energy faster than quiet play.

Also, with a spirited it can be worse to be putting down 'in case' they're tired, because you end up creating a lot more transitions back and forth from play to bed and spiriteds often struggle with the transitions. DS loved to sleep but only when he was ready. I found if I missed the mark with a nap, I had one more chance or he'd refuse that nap totally and the OT monster would come out with a vengeance.

Can you push her A time up to 3.5hr on a regular basis and watch for tired cues from there?

[Jessleigh]

Ladies, thank you so so much for taking the time to read through all my 'stuff.' Your replies are super helpful! I'm finding that she's suddenly in some kind of developemental leap! Acting different, wanting to stay up longer, and just discovered she can flip to her belly in her crib and get on all fours and practice crawling (she's in a sleep sack so she didn't realize she could do this before . So all this has totally thrown me. But i can totally relate to everything you both wrote so thank you so much.

One thing I found is that my dd was easily OT but she still needed a decent A time to get her a nap god enough to help overcome it which sounds totally screwed up

I've totally found this to be true for my LO. I feel  like I'm finding that a 30min nap it OT but not enough A, and then an hr is also OT but with more A...

OS can look like OT in that LO gets super happy - squeals, shrieks, etc. and most people will think LO is extremely happy but LO is OS. Big tight hugs and lots of body contact can help dissipate the OS energy faster than quiet play.

She does get like this a lot and i haven't been doing enough tight hugs. She's pretty resistant to them, but i guess i need to try more. Maybe i just am not sure how to do it right?

trying an early bedtime can work better than a third nap, I know that can be scary but it is worth trying to find out of you have a LO that will tag on to their night sleep

I definitely need to do this more. I get a little nervous sometimes. But tonight was a key example of why i need to.

It looked like this:
WU – 5:45
A – 3hrs 30
S – 9:15-10:10 (55mins)
A – 3hrs 15
S – 1:23-1:46, woke then took time resettling, 1:53-2:00 (almost resettled then woke)

I thought i could sneak a stroller nap in at 4 bc it's work so many times before but after 40mins of walking she was just ed off that she was sitting in that thing. Ended my attempt. Trouble was we were out and wouldn't be able to be home til 5:45! So my poor LO had a 4hr A time after 30minish nap and she was miserable. Woke at the 20min mark after asleep and took 45mins to get her back down. poor thing.

Also, with a spirited it can be worse to be putting down 'in case' they're tired, because you end up creating a lot more transitions back and forth from play to bed and spiriteds often struggle with the transitions. DS loved to sleep but only when he was ready. I found if I missed the mark with a nap, I had one more chance or he'd refuse that nap totally and the OT monster would come out with a vengeance.

I've learned in the last 3days that this is completely true for my LO! I guess i was just so worried about OT that i tired shorted A's (it had worked twice) but it only made it worse with the multiple nap attempts. I thought she just hated her crib suddenly but I realized it was probably bc of going back and forth, so i'm glad for the confirmation on that one!

So thanks for the advice. I'm gonna shoot for holding that 3.5 hr A and watching for tired signs and EBT instead of trying to sneak in a CN.

Can you push her A time up to 3.5hr on a regular basis and watch for tired cues from there?

Bec - I'm assuming here you mean even after a short nap?

[Jessleigh]

One more question regarding OS. What would be some advice on how to avoid this?

We really do most of our play at home during the day with the ocassional outing, errand or playdate. I have been playing baby einstein (a series of learning DVD's for babies) for her a lot lately as it seems to keep her happy when she's fussy and it's not nap time. Maybe it's too much?

She's just such an alert baby! In fact that's the first thing people remark on when they meet her, even when she was only a few days old. People are so drawn to her because she's so engaged. i always just assumed that's one of the reasons for the sleep troubles.

Because of this it's hard not to play with her and get her all riled up - she just laughs and laughs and shrieks! (DH espcially loves to get her going, and i'm usually the one telling him to tone it down if it's close to nap time). How do i know when this is normal baby fun and when it's OS?