Breaking OT cycle - 8mos

[ZacsMumme]

Hugs, I remember those rubbish 30 min nap days, I would try to squeeze 4 in on terrible days
Glad your using EBT it does sound like its helping, though 5.50 is early its a great night sleep for CU

[Jessleigh]

I think sneaking in an extra nap might be my plan today....5:45 BT last night with 5:15 WU! No thank you. Time to shift BT forward.

[Jessleigh]

btw, the last 2 mornings she's been waking and acting OT/OS. Is that bc has A time to BT is too long? She's just so jerky and hyper (squealing) and won't stop kicking her little legs even while dozing in my arms.

[becj86]

Sounds like she needs more sleep still. It can be related to A to BT being too long, but I would've thought it would've been an EW rather than a 12hr night... can you APOP her back to sleep at that time? I know she's had a good night by then, but seems like she needs more, yk?

[Jessleigh]

Yeah, i tried. I've done it other mornings but it seems my luck ran out on the EBT. She was wide awake at 5:15.

I tapered back on the A times today and got 2 great naps!

WU - 5:12
A - 3hrs 10mins
S - 8:22-9:34 (1hr 12mins!)
A - 2hrs 45mins (just followed her cues)
S - 12:20-1:20 (1hr)
A - 2hrs 55mins
S - 4:15-4:45 (30min CN on walk)
A - 2hrs 15mins
BT - 7

Really good day in that there was no screaming! But i know she would have totally refused the CN had i not APed it so she totally wants a longer last A time it seems. Hope all that sleep didn't mess too much with her night but i really wanted that BT moved!

Now that she's caught up I'll slowly start increasing the A again.

Thanks again!

[ZacsMumme]

Hope things continue to improve.

[Jessleigh]

Yes I'm back. Pretty much at the same place i left off.
Still getting almost all 30min naps and thus having to do 3 a day. NW's are getting worse. Therefore, every morning she's yawning 1-2hrs into A time and wanting to nap. I keep her up til at least 3hrs-3hrs 20mins depending on how she's doing, but getting 30mins every time and unable to resettle. Wakes crying after every nap.

So. Here's what I'm thinking about doing i was wondering what you (anyone) thought.

Option 1: Start by working on nights. I've been feeding back to sleep and just haven't been consistent with when to feed and when not to feed (sometime i wait four hours and sometimes im just so tired, i feed even if it's been 2). I'm thinking of cutting out night feeds cold turkey (doing a DF), and just doing PD. She's gone without night feeds for 2 whole months before so i know she doesn't need them. She's a great weight too. Also, i feel like cold turkey would be a lot less confusing for me and her. Is this just way too harsh?

Option 2: Continue working on days except up the A time to more like 3:45 despite her obvious tired signs in hopes that if i get an OT nap i can resettle.

THoughts?

[Jessleigh]

one more thing. To top it off, i would really like to start working on moving BT to 8pm for the time change coming up. it would be nice to have it done with ahead of time bc DH will be out of town the 5 days during the change and i don't want to face super early wakeups alone.

Should i be waiting on this until things smooth out or should i just go for it? (i tend to be a "go for it" kind of person rather than doing everything gradually, but maybe with DD's personality this isn't the best option?)

Just seems like a lot to work on and I'm not sure where to start. Need a game plan. 

[Jessleigh]

would love a little help. having a really hard time knowing when she needs to nap. so confused.

here's the last 3 days: NW's have gotten super bad after 12pm i'm guessing bc of another tooth about to break the surface so i haven't done PD with the NW's yet. Waiting for this tooth to come through.

WU – 4:50 (woke acting very OT/hyper)
A – 2hrs 45mins (yawning all morning.) Cried when put down…
S -7:35 – 8:15 (40mins)
A – first attempted at 2 hrs bc sleepy but just started babbling so kept up for another hour. 3hrs 10mins (babbled for 5mins then fell asleep surprisingly)
S – 11:25-12:30 (1hr 5mins)
A – 3hrs 10mins (tried in crib but she was so OT hyper I took her in carrier)
S – 3:37-4:15 (38mins)
A – 2hr 25mins
BT– 6:40 (put her down at 6:25 but she was so hyper she wrestled around in there, head shaking, all fours, down dog, sitting, going nuts, but no crying. Finally settled on her own)
NW (another really bad night…I think that fifth tooth is trying to break through)
NW – 10:45 (shh'ed…5mins), 12:30, 1:30, 3:30, 5, (just fed or suckled each time bc I think she’s in pain
WU – 6

MON
WU – 6
A – 3hrs (again super tired this am…maybe all the NW’s)
S – 9- (settled pretty quickly)9:30 (30mins)
A – 2hrs 10mins (she was throwing a fit at clares)
S – 11:40-12:30 (50mins) in carrier but seemed OT still bc super fussy when she woke, was jolting the whole sleep, seemed quite restless and unhappy
A – 3hrs 5mins
S – 3:35-4:10 (35mins)
A – 3hrs 5mins (I put her down at 6:45 but she wrestled around/fussed/cried for 30
BT – 7:15
NW’s – 12:20, 2, 3, 4:50, 5:50 (held til 6:10 when she woke)
WU – 6:10

Tuesday
WU – 6:10
A – 3hrs
S – (put her down at 9:25) 9:30-10 (30mins)
A – 2hrs 50mins (she was yawning a lot again. Tried putting her down at 2hrs 30. She fussed in her crib, pulling up, mild crying but no screaming. Had to PD 3 times.)
S – 12:50-1:50 (1hr nap) woke crying, acted like she could go back to sleep on my shoulder so I held her but couldn't get back down
A – 3hrs
S – 4:50-5:28 (38mins) on walk
A – 2hrs 15mins
BT – 7:45 (took her 15mins of fussing, babbling, all fours, 1 PD, no crazy crying)...wanted to start pushing BT out instead of doing EBT
NW – 12:30, 2,4,5,5:50,6:20
WU – 6:45

She seems tired every morning. Also, even a 50 min nap seems OT to me by the way she acts (unhappy upon waking, jolting awake). But i could be wrong.

[becj86]

Sorry, hun. I wrote a whole long post then got an error but thought it had been posted. I see it didn't appear

Are you medicating for the teeth? That could actually be why she's waking at 40-50min... if she's in pain while in that light sleep transition, she may be having trouble getting back into the next sleep cycle.

[Jessleigh]

thanks for the reply. sorry you're other post didn't go through (I hate that!).

Well, i've been using teething tablets and camilia (both homeopathic) bc i didn't want to rely too much on acetometiophin. But i have given it a few time and haven't noticed much difference.

Today was odd and I'm really thinking i need to reduce the am A time. Her am nap was 30mins but she was so miserable when she woke and wouldn't nurse to AP the resettle so i popped her in the carrier. Took her 20mins of dozing to finally fall asleep but when she did she was out for 2HRS!!! O man, my legs hurt! Was not expecting that but i was so happy she was sleeping that i just kept on walking. But even after that nice long nap, 3hrs of A seemed too much for her. So odd. Could also be bc her nights are so awful right now.

Today:
WU – 6:45 (after 7:45BT)
A – 3hrs 10mins (yawning at 2hrs again.)
S – 9:50-10:20 (30mins) then 11-1!! in carrier (2hrs!!)
A – 3hrs (was yawning again at 2 hrs but kept changing activity)
S – 4-4:30 (30mins)…woke crying again and I gave her meds before the nap so im thinking OT?
A – 2hrs 30mins (yawning a lot again)
BT – 7 (put her down at 6:50, settled fairly quickly, no fussing or getting up which was nice)

The thing is, we've been having sleep problems for nearly 3months now (after a good 2month stretch of STTNing and better naps). The teething i think is just currently making it worse. The naps started to get worse when i started increasing A times (bc she was having long NW's).

sigh...

Well, i'll just keep doing what i know how to do. Just thought i'd pop back on in case anyone saw something I'm not.
Thanks so much. Really appreciate your time!

[becj86]

Can you do a day or two following her cues and putting her down when she's looking tired and just note down her times? Maybe she only needs 2hr45 of something? How active is she?

[Jessleigh]

Can you do a day or two following her cues and putting her down when she's looking tired and just note down her times?

good idea. I was thinking of doing that. we'll see how it goes. just put her down at 2hrs40.

How active is she?

She's not super active. She crawls (recently learned) but not super fast and not all the time. She's also not a very independent player (unless i give her something she's never seen before), so she requires a lot of attention.

It also seems that she's tended to always be on the lower end of A times for her age, maybe bc she doesn't consistently take long naps??.

DH and i have also had it with the NW's. At first i APed out pity, thinking she was in pain, but now i'm sure some has become habitual. So we decided to ween night feeding tonight and just including a DF do PD the rest of the night. I'm hoping that once she starts getting a good night sleep again she'll be less needy and able to handle loner A's during the day.

Thanks for your help.

[Jessleigh]

Surprise! I'm back. haha!

Well after following her cues for a few days i still cannot get more than a 1hr nap out of her so most days end up being 3 naps of 1hr, 30mins and 30mins. so not fun.

However, i HAVE learned that she IS capable of sleeping for 2hrs bc in the last few days, on 3 different occassions i have given up on trying to get her to nap and popped her in the carrier to go on a walk. twice i got a 2 hr nap and once a 1.5hr nap.

So, I thinking i might just need to really work on nap extending and do away with APing any naps (except if i need to do a 3rd CN).

I just wanted to double check on a game plan before I proceed so when she wails forever i can be confident in what i am doing.

So, when she wakes at the 30 crying, i go up there. reassure her with my voice but do not pick her up. I proceed to do this until when? next feeding?

Also, i've found that PD sometimes makes things worse and if i just use my voice, even though she's sitting up or on her knees on the rails, she eventually lay down and sleep. If i do PD it seems to get her more and more agitated.

And then what if i don't get an extended nap? just follow her cues til next nap?

Thanks for the help.

[becj86]

Can you try HTTJ at say 25min through the 30?