3 month old - are NW's ever from hunger if your LO wakes up 'gently'?

[lynners]

So true.  I'll get with the naps mods so we can put these two together so it makes more sense for everyone. 

Thank you 

especially because you're trying to get him to sleep to get the better nap and get rid of the EWs, right?

Exactly!!!



The day went ok - will just have to see how tonight goes.  Day was-

S 7.15
DF 10.00
E 3.20
E 5.50 
WU 7.15
A
E 8.15
A
S 9.05 - 9.45 (1h 50 had been my A-10 for before 1st nap and after 40min UT naps but as it didn't work here and LO woke up happy I thought I'd risk 2h for the next reduced A - which worked!!!  His A time seems to be increasing ridiculously but there you have it.)
A
E 11.00
A
S 11.45 - 13.45
E 13.45
A
S 15.55 - 17.55 (Had discussed with Sara that after a CN before bed I should only have an A of about 45-60m, but because it was a 'reverse day' I guessed that I would need a little more A before bed - )
E 17.55 Snack
A/bath etc
E Not a great feed (Before speaking to Sara re. A time after CN I tended to do about 1h40 ish and have an E at the beginning and at the end as of sort of cluster feed but as this A is less now maybe I shouldn't do this and just have the one last feed so it should be a good one )
S 19.15

...will be back with the fun of tonight in the morning x

[Erin M]

His A time seems to be increasing ridiculously but there you have it.

Yeah, they'll do some crazy jumps in A time sometimes, hard to keep up with!

Before speaking to Sara re. A time after CN I tended to do about 1h40 ish and have an E at the beginning and at the end as of sort of cluster feed but as this A is less now maybe I shouldn't do this and just have the one last feed so it should be a good one

He's probably old enough now that you could lose the cluster and just do the last feed before bed. 

Hope the night is good!

[lynners]

Ok so here was my night and today.  Would appreciate your thoughts.  (great to be posting in just one spot now - thanks Sara  )

S 7.15pm
DF 10.15
NW and E 2.00
NW and settling with shushing (no E) 3.30 – 4.30 very cranky, pretty horrid, haven’t had NW’s this close together since the first few weeks but at least then slept to…
WU 6.55 (Which is great for us. I’m sure could have made it to 7.15 but my husband got up and that woke him.  Thinking of moving LO to his own room next week which should hopefully help with that.  Not a disaster that he woke before 7.15 because DS1 still ill and off school.  He’ll be back tomorrow though so hope to get it better then)
E 7.10 WU (was quiet and happy and although feed was better than if we have a 5 ish feed as well, he still wasn’t starving after not being fed for 5 hours.)
A
S 8.48 – 10.10 (Put him down at 9.45 allowing his normal 10 minutes to settle but he was gone in 3 minutes and didn’t make the full 2 hours )
E 10.15 (Woke up cranky and much hungrier.  Fine after he ate.)
S 12.15-2.10
E 2.10 (Again woke up crankier and hungrier)
S 4.15-4.55 (Woke up quietly on his own and started going back to sleep. Often stirs/wakes up for a tiny bit at the 40 minute mark. (Have a video monitor for spying with ;-) Decided to get him up as per Sara’s suggestion to just have CN and earlier BT in this situation.  Fingers crossed we don’t end up with an EW but it certainly didn’t work having a long nap at the end of the day yesterday re. NW's)
A
E 6.00 (Ditched cluster feed - thanks Erin!)
S 6.35 (Had planned to do only about an hour A is Sara recommended but due to DS1 being ill didn’t quite go to plan.)

Knackered today after 5 days of DS1 being ill.  Really would like to get DS2 on track.

Thanks ladies 

[Erin M]

OK, a few thoughts --
that long nap to BT would mess with our early mornings, so it could be that getting him up from the CN was a good decision (hoping for tonight!)
just wondering, have you ever tried not feeding at WU and delaying the feed until about midway through A time?  I'm wondering if you let him eat a little bit later if it would help stretch out your naps and maybe have him not so cranky when he wakes?  Do you think he'd be content to wait awhile? 

The cranky wakings could really just be him getting used to the new A time -- you got some great naps out of it, so I think you're on the right track with the extended A times. 

Hope your ds1 feels better soon, it's really hard when everybody needs you!

[lynners]

Great night and pretty good day thanks.  Could particularly do with comments on the second nap.

S 18.35
NW 2.00 (woke up grunting, left to self-soothe/mantra and he went back to sleep within about 10 minutes, no probs.)
NW 4.00 (Played it safe pushing for my later WU and fed.  Next week DS1 is on school holidays so WU time not as vital.   Would leave this a bit longer to see if he is really hungry.)
WU 7.15 (EBT after CN seems to have been our friend!!)
E 7.20 (Not great feed, although usually feed on his own and this morning fed in DS1’s room while getting DS1 ready.  Juggling new routine, will try and get DS2 some quiet time for feed in future if possible.)
S 9.25-11.15 (Put down at about 9.10 when back from school.  Took a little longer to settle.  Had to wake at 11.15.)
E 11.15
S 13.27- 14.10 (Woke up quietly and tried to put himself back to sleep and just couldn’t.  Started getting upset.  Needed feeding to calm down.  Perhaps would have been better if I had fed I middle of previous A as suggested by Erin.  Unfortunately had to feed before I went out with LO that particular A.  Maybe look at usually feeding in the middle of A’s, particularly while adjusting to these new A’s.  Not sure if I need to look at pushing this A to get a full sleep or if I was just unlucky.  Only been on this A for a couple of days.  Increasing the A again already would also make it tricky to get a full nap in before the pm school run so would rather not, although of course better to get an almost full nap than just 40 mins.)
E 14.10
S 16.35-17.15 (Put to bed at 16.00.  Took ages to go to sleep but was very calm)
E 17.55
S 18.40

Many thanks


 

[Erin M]

Great night! 

That second nap -- I'm really not so sure you need to push that A time much farther -- 2 hours at his age is where we'd expect him to be -- what is your sense, has he always been on the high side of A times (well as much as you've been able to notice in a little less than 4 months?) -- I might keep to 4ish hours for a few days and see where it gets you.  Although the fact that he did a full A time and then took some time to fall asleep after that short nap makes me wonder if he does need a touch more A time.  I'm going to say try it for a few days at 2 hours and then if it's not working maybe push it out a touch again. 

[lynners]

Thanks again Erin.  It's always such a relief when I get up bleary eyed in the morning to see a post from you.  It is so appreciated 

Now on to something fabulous....our night.  I couldn't wait until the end of the day to post our whole EASY because I was just too darn excited about our night.  So here it is...

S 18.40
DF 10.30 (Normally 10 o'clock but DH and I actually went out for a couple of hours together last night.  Yay for MIL)
NW 3.00 (Left to self soothe.  Gentle mantra then back to sleep in no more than 10 mins...Bliss)
NW 4.30 (Left to self soothe.  Gentle mantra then back to sleep in no more than 10 mins...Double bliss)
WU 7.15 (Had to wake up - insane amounts of bliss  )

That's right, no feeding from DF!!  And when he woke at 7.15 he actually a great feed rather than the pathetic snack I've been getting used to.  Hooray!  Onwards and upwards.

One other question though.  The clocks change here in the UK on Saturday.  It goes back an hour so we need to extend our day's EASY by an hour.  I've been reading lots of suggestions about how to do this on the site and I think I'l try extending tomorrow by half an hour and then the following day by half an hour.  Do you think it would work if rather than waking him from his long naps at 2 hours it was 2hrs 15 mins (if possible) on both days.  I don't know though if that would create a bit too much daytime sleep and affect our fab night though.  Maybe I add 10 mins to each nap and 10 mins to our final A before bed for each day.  What do you think ? Of course if I could let him sleep the extra hour in the morning I would do that.   

Aaahh the joys of time changes just when we're doing well 

[lynners]

Sorry also meant to say yes I agree re. A times.  He has tended to be higher re. A times but I think we'll stick with where we are for a bit because there's been such an increase recently.  Fingers crossed.

DS1 was back in school yesterday because he seemed better but only made it to lunch time and came home again very poorly    On the plus side though because he's off today and it half-term next week we've got a week and half to get DS2's routine happening (and possibly moving DS2 in to his own room) before we get back to school.

Thanks again Erin.

[Erin M]

WOOHOO!! 
LOL, I always do one last check of posts before I go to bed, so I'm probably posting while you're (hopefully) sleeping! 

Ugh, the time change, I think we've got ours in 2 weeks here!  The 10 minute plan might be a big gentler, though TBH I always wait until after the clocks change and then just try to make it work from there.  I don't think there's very sound logic in that approach though.    With all the tweaking and pushing you've been doing lately, I would think it's not actually going to be that bad (we can hope).  How's that for a vague answer?

[lynners]

Not quite time for sleeping but yes hopefully I'll be doing more of that tonight than I did last night.  I was just so excited by all his self-soothing I couldn't sleep at all! 

So today was this -

DF 10.30
NW 3.30 (Self soothed)
NW 5.00 (Self soothed)
WU 7.15 (had to wake up!)
E 7.15 (great feed)
A
S 9.20 – 10.00 (Put down at 9.10) Think we do need an A increase - woke calmly
A
E 11.15 (good feed)
A
S 12.15 – 14.15(put down at 12.05)
E 14.20 (great feed)
A
S 16.30 (put down at 16.15) 17.10
A
E 17.50
S 18.40

So think maybe we do need another 10 minutes added to his first A.  Not sure about between the two long naps if we get them.  His first A has always been 10 minutes less than a full A but maybe he needed more because he'd had such a good night sleep.  What do you think?

The other thing that was brilliant was that without any night feeds his daytime feeding was soooo much better. 

Fingers crossed for tonight.  Too exciting.   

[Erin M]

I was just so excited by all his self-soothing I couldn't sleep at all! 

LOL!  Self-soothing is really very exciting. 

Your first A sounds like it needs to be pushed out a little bit, probably not all that much, but I think 10 minutes would do it (and yes, they do often need more A time after a solid night).  If you get a long first nap, he probably will need more A time between the naps too. 

Glad the daytime feeds are better too. 

[lynners]

Well our night was ok – certainly not as good as last night - but the day was a bit out.  Not sure what to do about our A.  He just seems to need more and more.  Please let me know what you think.

S 18.50
DF 22.30
NW and E 4.30 (Left to see if he’d self soothe but cry escalated and sounded hungry.  Hope he was hungry rather than just struggling to re-settle )  On the plus side he slept to ..
7.55 (helping us push his day forward with the change of clocks!)
S 10.15 – 10.55 (Gosh I think he needs even more A!!!)
E 10.55   
A
E 13.05 Was about to put him down and he really started rooting which was unusual – maybe 4 month GS
S 13.22 –  15.20 Woke up for 10 minutes after 40 minutes and stirred after the next 40 then back to sleep thanks goodness.  Even more A needed
E 15.20
A
E 17.25 Started rooting again
S 17.50  - 18.30
A
E 18.50
S 19.50

Thanks so much


 

[Erin M]

E 13.05 Was about to put him down and he really started rooting which was unusual – maybe 4 month GS

Ugh, I looked at your ticker yesterday and was thinking you're right there but didn't want to say anything and jinx it.    If he seems hungry, I'd feed him -- they definitely do some back and forth at this age with needing/not needing extra feeds due to growth spurts. 

And yes, it does sounds like you need to up that A time even more -- it will work for a few days while they get used to it, and then once they're used to it, it needs to be upped again (until you finally hit the right A time).  Glad to hear about the 7:55 -- if you've got clock changes and the potential 4 mo GS, just keep trying to read those cues and you'll get through it ok. 

[lynners]

Thanks Erin. Another great night – Yippee.    Don’t know what happened to the growth spurt thing.  Will just have to take it as it comes.  Still haven’t cracked what our full A is though.  Here was our day -


S 19.50
DF 22.30
NW 1.20 (Settled easily in 5 minutes, no E)
NW 5.00 (4.00 New time with clocks changed – chatted and gurgled for about half an hour then back to sleep, no E, almost like a UT NW   Seems insane with the amount of A he’s getting.)
WU and E 6.38 New time (7.38 Old) – no E since DF!!!    (Pity I'm still not sleeping though )
A
New times from here…
S 8.57 – 11.10 (put down at 8.53 – we got the right first A today!!!  Put him down at 2h 15min)
E 11.10
A
S 13.45 – 14.55 (put down at 13.35.  Woke up calmly for 10 minutes at 40 mins then only slept a little more.  Woke up cranky – more A for this tomorrow???  Am seriously adding 10 minutes every day or two.  He seemed to be getting really tired when I put him down but the wake up concerns me.  Also time between E’s are getting really long for his age.   Would I have to consider capping naps once I get the right A in between two long ones?  We're not going to be able to get a CN in soon with these A times and I don't know how I'm going to work this around my school runs - a full nap in the morning then two short ones isn't ideal.  School runs are between 8.45 - 9.05 and 3.10 - 3.30.  Any ideas?  Desperately scanning other people's routines for solutions.)
E 14.55
A 
S 17.10 – 17.20 (Unfortunately woke up. DH wasn’t sure what to do as I was out picking  up DS1 from a party.  DS2 did go back to sleep after half an hour.  Sounds like he was getting a bit cranky by the end of the half hour but more of a crankier mantra than a “ I need you’ cry so then…
S 17.50 – 18.20
E 18.50
S 19.30
 





 







 

[Erin M]

Wow, more A time I guess!  The other thing is that when he becomes more mobile, he might pull back on the A times a little.  School runs are not fun, we had one with my ds all last year.  Focus on getting one long good nap for sure and then go from there is really the best you can do.