Can't lengthen 13 week old twins A time

[BareFootMomma]

My girl/girl twins will be 13 weeks tomorrow, and I am having a hard time with their A time and naps. ABout 3 weeks ago baby A started taking 45 minute naps, and was really hard to re-settle. I first thought maybe she was OT, but shortening her A time didn't help. Advice I got on here was that she probably needed more A time, not less. So, I have been trying to lengthen it. It's just not working.

As of the last few days, baby B is doing the same thing. 45 min naps, and I am not having a lot of luck lengthening her A time either. Even by 5 minutes. In fact, it seems like they are getting tired earlier and earlier during their A time. I try to keep things quiet, but they end up screaming after only 45 minutes and they cry and scream until they finally go to sleep. It is getting harder and harder to settle them for naps and it takes them forever to fall asleep. Many times I am back in their room patting and re-plugging paci's a few times before they finally stay asleep.

Once they are asleep I can guarantee they will be up at 45 minutes, if not 30. Sometimes I can resettle them, but then they are up ever 15-30 minutes until the end of their nap.....or until they are both too awake to resettle. Their schedule is all over the place, so I don't know how much I can post on here.

E - 7am
A - 7:15 - Quiet time starts at 7:45 when they start crying. Wind down starts at 8:00. Nap routine has turned into me swaddling them as fast as I can because they are both screaming so hard and are feeding off each other being upset. I go back and forth trying to calm them down until I can get them both asleep.
S - Anywhere from 8:10-8:25 depending on how upset they get and how long it takes to calm them down.
**The rest of the day is all over the place depending on how naps go. I try to keep their feeds at 3 hrs, but sometimes they are hungry early (probably from crying and being awake so much)**
Sometimes they get a cat nap in the evenings, and other times it ends up that there isn't enough time without it delaying bed time. I try to get them to bed at 7 or 7:30 (keeping their days to 12-12.5 hrs), but many times they end up waking after 45 minutes and then will not go to sleep for a good 1-1.5 hours.

How can I lengthen their A times? Do I just keep them up while they cry until 1.5 hrs?

[Ima shel Alon]

Sorry I only get to your post now.
First of all (((hugs))). I know how difficult it is with one and you are doing it with two, so give yourself a pat on the shoulder, at least.
3m old is a tricky age. Naps are starting to shorten, A needs to be extended but baby can't stay awake and the list goes on. It's also approaching the transition to 4h EASY cycles at 4m and things start to mess up around a month before. So what you are going through is more than normal.

I think what happened is that after a while of them napping only 45min naps they accumulated OT (or perhaps just one of them) and now it's difficult to go back on track. IIWY I would take the next 2-3 days and just get them to sleep as much as you can. Whenever they seem tired put them down, if you have a prop or AP that works (swing, sling, car, pram, whatever) use it as much as you can. So these next few days are going to be all about catching up with sleep.
Then we can start and increase the A very very slowly. You'd need to set yourself on an A (best is what they did when it started) but lets assume that it's 1:15h A. So you would offer that for three days and stick to it, you'd need to be quite consistent with A during the tweaking. After three days you will up it to 1:25 and stick with that for three days. If you feel like they are OT again (an indication for that would be 30-35min naps) then you stay on 1:25h for a few more days. If you are still getting 45min naps and you probably will because they are in an age when they need more A than that, then you up it again to 1:35h A. You basically up it by 10min every 3-4 days and only if you stick to the new A during those days on the last day you should see the true results of the higher A.
What do you think?

[BareFootMomma]

Thank you for your response!

I think baby B has caught up on sleep. She sleeps in the swing (bad, I know!) and for the past couple days has slept all the way through each nap.

Baby A, on the other hand, is still waking at 30 minutes and it takes upwards of 40 minutes to get her back to sleep. I usually have to pick her up and pat for a while until she is totally asleep before putting her back down. Sometimes I have to move her onto my bed and then she will stay asleep. I'm not sure why she sleeps better on my bed (I'm not laying down with her), but she does. Once she is back to sleep she will only sleep for another 30-45 minutes and once she wakes up I can't get her back to sleep. I haven't found any way to get her to sleep through that first wake up. She even wakes if she is in the car, stroller, being worn in a carrier, or in the swing. I'm not sure how to better help her to  catch up on sleep.

One thing that makes this very difficult with two is that, if they are on different schedules, putting one baby to sleep after the other has already been asleep for a while will wake the sleeping baby up almost every time. Does that make sense lol? I swear they need different rooms, but that just isn't an option right now.

[Ima shel Alon]

I remember reading somewhere something that a twin mommy wrote and she said that the best advice anyone could give her is to keep the two on the same routine.
30 min naps are OT so I think it's really like I said before and she accumulated OT. What happens if you put her a bit earlier for her nap? Have you tried to put her 30min earlier at BT to let her catch up on sleep?

[BareFootMomma]

Do you mean to put just baby A down for BT early? No, I hadn't thought to put her down earlier than baby B, but I might try that. If I put her down early for naps, she ends up getting woken up as I am putting her sister down at the usual time. Then I have a killer time getting her back to sleep at all.

I am sure it is accumulated OT, but I don't know what to do other than have her sleep on my bed for a few days to see if it makes her sleep better. If she was in on my bed I could probably put her down a bit early for naps without her getting woken up by my putting her sister down. Would I just be creating another problem by letting her sleep on my bed or does that sound like a good idea for trying to get her caught up on sleep? If I put her down early for her nap and she only takes a 45 min nap, do I try to resettle her back to sleep?

[Ima shel Alon]

Do you mean to put just baby A down for BT early? No, I hadn't thought to put her down earlier than baby B, but I might try that. If I put her down early for naps, she ends up getting woken up as I am putting her sister down at the usual time. Then I have a killer time getting her back to sleep at all.

Yes, I meant that your LO who struggles right now more with naps should perhaps go to bed 30min earlier than her sister.
Is there a possibility to put her earlier for a nap in her room and then the other LO in another room just for naps, no night sleep?  So she will sleep in her cot and other LO in another room?
If not then I would let her sleep in your bed for a few days IIWY. Sure, you might have a prop there but IMO OT is the devil so I would do anything to get my LO to sleep. But that's me
If she naps 45min then I am not sure it's an OT nap. 45min naps are usually UT and you mentioned that she is napping for 30min which would be OT.
Anyway, if it's an UT nap and she wakes up after 45min happy then I wouldn't try to settle because she simply is not tired enough.

[BareFootMomma]

Things are getting really really bad. Now neither baby will sleep for more than 20 minutes at a time anywhere (including in a wrap/carrier!!), and I am losing it. I can't spend the entire day standing in their room shh-patting to try to get them back to sleep! I have a 3 yr old and she is barely getting food let alone any attention because all I ever do it go into the babies' damn room and fight to keep them asleep. I hate that nothing is working!! I can't do this with two!

Am I just doomed to have them taking 20 minute naps forever?

[mskhaase]

I just went through the same thing with my LO. I tried everything I could think of to do with activity and nap time but sure as anything she would wake after 45min like clockwork. I went back to the book and found the section that said catnaps were caused by over tiredness or hunger. Sure enough I did a yield and wasn't producing as much milk as I thought. Increased my production and sure enough the 45 min naps are gone now

K

[Ima shel Alon]

What are their first A right now? Are they about 15 weeks now?

[BareFootMomma]

Yes, they will be 15 weeks tomorrow.

I have been trying to keep their A time short at first because that is when they seem to get sleepy really early. Baby A is almost always falling asleep wherever she is after only an hour- 1hr 10min. But it doesn't matter how short I make the A time they wake after 30 (now 20) minutes. I know they are OT. I just can't seem to get them to sleep any longer! Should I try to keep their first A time to what it idealy should be? 1.5 hrs right?

Now it is to the point where I can't get them back to sleep when they do wake.....They don't wake up just a little their little eyes just pop all the way open and they lay there talking and cooing at me while I try to Shh-pat. Some times if I stick with it for 30-45 minutes they will fall back to sleep, but then they are awake again after another 20-30 minutes. I usually just give up and then am totally lost as to how long to keep them up before trying another nap, while still keeping their feeding on schedule.

Nights are starting to fall apart too now. They are getting harder and harder to settle for BT, and they wake after 30 minutes and have been taking at least an hour (2.5 last night) to go back to sleep. They have several NWings, last night was every 2 hrs. Then they wake at 7 regardless of how late they finally stay sleep.

I have decided that I completely stink at reading their cues, but the last couple days all they do is cry. All. Day. Long. They are happy for the first few minutes they are awake and while they eat. Then they start crying while I change their diapers, and it doesn't stop until they finally fall asleep.

It would be pretty pointless for me to post our routine because there is no EASY to it at all. It's more like EASASEASAESA. If you would like me to try to post it anyways I can try.

I am getting no Y time at all. As soon as the babies go to sleep for a nap I rush to take care of ODD before I am back in their room. I haven't had real quality time playing with her in days    Even to post on here I am typing on my phone while I feed them.

I have had people come help, but they don't understand or care why I am trying so hard to get the babies to sleep. They all tell me that I should just let them get back up or tell me for the millionth time that they must be hungry.

I know for sure that I have plenty of milk. When I am trying to store milk for someone to take over a feeding I can pump 3+ oz from each side right after I feed them. So I'm 99% sure this isn't a hunger issue.

[Ima shel Alon]

I have been trying to keep their A time short at first because that is when they seem to get sleepy really early. Baby A is almost always falling asleep wherever she is after only an hour- 1hr 10min. But it doesn't matter how short I make the A time they wake after 30 (now 20) minutes. I know they are OT. I just can't seem to get them to sleep any longer! Should I try to keep their first A time to what it idealy should be? 1.5 hrs right?

Now it is to the point where I can't get them back to sleep when they do wake.....They don't wake up just a little their little eyes just pop all the way open and they lay there talking and cooing at me while I try to Shh-pat. Some times if I stick with it for 30-45 minutes they will fall back to sleep, but then they are awake again after another 20-30 minutes. I usually just give up and then am totally lost as to how long to keep them up before trying another nap, while still keeping their feeding on schedule.

At their age they should be more around 2-2:15h A ttime. I really don't think that the 20-30min naps are OT, they are UT, especially if they wake up happy from naps and are hard to settle - which all indicate UT.
IIWY I would work on increasing the A time and it should fix your naps and get rid of the NW as well.
Re crying throughout their A time, could they be US? Bored even? Have you tried changing the toy they play with or change rooms? Going for a walk?

[mothergoose]

Hi barefootmomma,
I have a 15 week old baby too and have been following your thread with interest because have also been having 'a' time issues. Sounds like you are having a really bad time at the minute I really feel for you!! Its awful when you have other people trying to tell you they are hungry I have been through that...I think a lot of people seem to think that the only reason babies cry is hunger! I am by no means an expert but was thinking have you tried maybe forgetting EASY just for a few days to try and get them out of the overtired cycle and just feeding them to sleep...I sometimes do this to lengthen my little boys nap when I know hes really OT...just go in at the first peep at 45min and feed him back to sleep. Or would they stay asleep longer in your arms...could you and their dad maybe hold one each for a few hours in the evening to try and get them to sleep 2/3 hours straight? Just an idea.
Hope things get better soon!xo

[mothergoose]

Oh just seen Ima's reply there...sounds good didn't think of that...my suggestion obviously wont work if they are undertired sorry.
Just think it helps sometimes to know others going through the same thing though xx

[BareFootMomma]

Ima, do you mean 1-1:15 or the 2-2:15 you posted?  2-2:15 seems like a LONG time!

That being said, I stuck it out this morning and kept them up for 1.5 hrs, despite them both trying to fall asleep at the 1 hr mark, and crying for quite a bit of the A time. Guess what? They are still asleep almost 2 hrs later!! Hallelujah!!!! I am hoping it wasn't just a fluke.

I hadn't thought about them being bored. I usually move them through the house as I clean or play with ODD while they are awake. We don't usually go on walks because they hate their stroller/car seats and walking around the neighborhood with two infants screaming isn't super enjoyable for anyone.

Mothergoose - Thank you for your reply! I hope things start going better for you as well. I have been pretty lax with the EASY trying to get them to stay asleep any way I can, including feeding to sleep. It gets them to sleep really quick, but doesn't seem to affect how long they sleep, and sometimes it wakes them up lol. They are pretty complicated little girls right now! They only thing I can't do is hold them for the entire nap....not with a 3 hr old running around needing me. My husband is gone a lot for work, so it's just me and the 3 of them until after bed time usually.

[mothergoose]

Wow that sounds like a big improvement! Fingers crossed it continues! Will you keep us updated as to how things go over the next few days?...would be really interested to hear.
All the best