Should I move to set nap times?

[Buttonbobs]

Hi all, I've not posted here before as I've been talkin on the 2-1 transition board for the under 12 month olds. My DD is a little over 13 months old & has only one nap each day although she hasn't yet settled into a pattern of long nap so we are still doing quite a few EBTs.

My problem is that DD has become very OT (I think) but she copes with it very well as she is angel/textbook temperament. We have been getting NWs and a few EW but she just won't take a second nap, even if I APOP in the car. DD is due to start at nuraery in January and she'll be a toddler room where they have set naps at 12.30, after lunch.

Others on the baby 2-1 transition board have suggested I try a set nap time now as DD isn't adjusting brilliantly to one nap with flexible timings.

We have been aiming for the following EAS:
WU: 7 with milk - anything between 6&8 oz
Breakfast: 8
Snack: 10
Milk: 11.30 - max 5oz (trying to phase this out)
S: 12 - 2 (she's only done the occasional two hour plus nap, most naps have been 1.5 hours but she's never napped for a long time before)
E: lunch - shortly after wake up - main meal
Snack - 3.30/4pm
Tea: 5/5.15
Bathtime
Milk: 6.30 6-8oz
BT: 7 pm

She can manage 5 hours A in the morning but I'm not so sure about the afternoon one especially when the nap is only 1.5 hours

So I'm thinking a 12.30 nap might work with 7pm BT. Has anyone done this and wwyd?

[Truly Blessed]

Hiya Hun, to be honest her routine looks good, and less than a 1.5 nap is considered an OT nap, so maybe she is coping okay  To try and figure this out, can you tell me:

Does she seem ready for bed and settle quickly  If not does she seem UT or OT    To help you figure this out, sometimes LO's are quite playful and just don't want to lie down if UT, but lie down and flail around a lot but can't sleep if OT.

Do you think she is high/average/low sleep needs, judging from her sleep history on 2 naps 

Can you rule out teething WRT the NW and EW 

I'm just trying to figure out the reason for her NW and EW, so I would be a little bit reluctant to suggest pushing her nap our further, at her age, unless she can definitely handle it, otherwise her naps could get shorter.

On the other hand my DS went to 1 nap at 12 months and he would nap 1.5 to 2 hours but sleep 11 hours at night so he was managing well on less sleep than your DD and he is average sleep needs. He used to do a 13 hour day on a 1.5/2 hour nap, so maybe her day is too short  which is why I was wondering about her possibly being UT at BT.

If she is sleeping a 12 hour night consistently and is napping 1.5 hours but is low or average sleep needs then she may be getting all the sleep she needs while clocking up 13.5 hours.

(Hugs)

Vicki.x.

[Buttonbobs]

Thanks for your reply, she is definitely OT & massively so. She's been in bed now since 6.20 & is whiney but not really crying although she does cry on and off. She can't get herself to sitting from lying down so she is lying down but kicking her legs against the sides of the cot, which sometimes results in her moving up the cot & hittin her head on the end. She occasionally chatters & throws her dummy out of the cot. She is regularly yawning and rubbing her eyes too but just won't sleep.

The routine I posted is what we were aiming for but it isn't what we get really. Today was:

WU: some point between 5.30 & 6.30am - I'm not completely sure that she went back to sleep after the last NW. She was very dozy all morning so I took her for a nice quiet walk in her buggy. This calmed her a lot but she didn't nap. She eventually went to sleep at 11.30am and slept for 1 hr 10 mins. Then we went out in the afternoon and I had thought she might take a CN in the car - the only place I can ever get her to sleep other than in her cot. But no nap, so I thought early BT, but no luck. I'm finding this really hard and don't know what to do next really. I'm feeling a bit pathetic but I'm so tired & this really sucks.

[Buttonbobs]

Finally asleep at 7.05pm after a few final chatterings and kicks against the cot, hoping for a better night than last night.

[Truly Blessed]

How long has it been since she went to 1 nap Hun 

x.

[Buttonbobs]

He hasn't had two naps for about two months I think, other than on days when we travel out for the whole day when she may have two CNs, one on the way there, one on the way back.

Sorry, in my frustration I forgot to asnwer your other questions. I think she has always been lower on the sleep needs scale as she's never had brilliant naps, but I didn't worry as her night sleep was always great until now. I can't 100% rule out teething but medicine doesn't make a difference & there's no signs of anything in her mouth. She only has four teeth so far.

I see you point re possibly not needing as much sleep and maybe needing a 13 hour day. It is possible this could be the case, but how would I get to a 13 hour day when she is napping so poorly?

I'm just struggling with it all really and losing confidence in my ability to follow her signals.

[Shiv52]

Personally if she is going to be doing a nap at 12.30 in daycare to January i would do a set nap then.  I think aiming for 5.5 A time in the morning is a good aim if she tends to short nap and I agree with Vicki that it may be worth considering a slightly longer day. 

[Buttonbobs]

Thank you both so much, tomorrow is another day right! I really appreciate you being here, those desperate moments when you're on your own, everything seems hideous & I can't see past it. Your presenc makes a big difference!

I might try pushing A time towards 5.5 hours, it can't be worse than she is now, fingers crossed anyway.

[Truly Blessed]

how would I get to a 13 hour day when she is napping so poorly?

Just push her through Hun, she will probably surprise you and as she is angel/textbook she will no doubt handle it as well as any LO  Our Spirited DS used to be angel  and he was short napping 1 hour during the transition at first then managing 6 hours to BT, and he was 12 months.

I agree with Shiv and was going to say the same thing, that if she has to do 5.5 A time to nap in January then I would do it then, but personally I would stretch the afternoon and not the morning right now.

Always here to hold your hand Honey, hang in there  This too shall pass...honestly! 

x.

[Shiv52]

but personally I would stretch the afternoon and not the morning right now.

Sorry I should have been clear.  I agree with V on this  and then aim to stretch the morning.  Both mine could have done a very proper A time after a 1.5 nap. 

We always set bedtime as well as nap and that worked well. 

[Buttonbobs]

I'm going to post a few days EAS if that's ok so I can see if there's a pattern emerging or if she continues to be fairly random. So yesterday she woke at 6am
Milk:7
Breakfast 8am
Snack 10am
Milk: 11.15
Wind down (inc nappy change) -in bed at 11.30
S: 12 - 12.45 disrupted a few times by coughing (this probably isn't helping her)
Woke with a big cough, left her to it but she filled her nappy & once changed she wouldn't settle again
Lunch: 1.40
Snack :3.30
Tea: 5.15
Bath, milk: 6.30
BT: 7 - in bed and asleep within minutes
Slept through until I heard her chatting and cooing at 6am, left her until she cried out at 6.40am

So not much sleep but the night was much better

[Truly Blessed]

Looks like EBT paid of after the short nap Hun. Whilst she is poorly she will likely need more sleep anyway, so good call.x.

[Buttonbobs]

Thanks Vicki. Did it count as EBT even though she'd had a 13 hour day & also a 6hr 15mins A to BT?

Today's EAS was:

WU: 6am left in bed until 6.40
E: milk - 7.10
Breakfast: 8.20
She was behaving very tired, even toppling over from sitting a couple of times.
Nap in car in half hour journey: 10-10.25
E: snack - 10.45 (my parents were then babysitting her for a few hours)
Milk: 11.45
Nap: 1-1.45
Lunch: 2pm
Snack: 3.50
Tea: 5.20
Bath then milk: 6.45
BT: 7.05 - asleep in minutes. Fingers crossed

[Truly Blessed]

Thanks Vicki. Did it count as EBT even though she'd had a 13 hour day & also a 6hr 15mins A to BT?

Not really no LOL, I thought her WU as 7am I just looked at the top of the list  anyway it worked out okay 

Yup, Finger's X'd for you.x.

[Buttonbobs]

  phew, I thought I'd totally misunderstood. Thanks for your support Vicki.