Set naps for a 5 month old - has anyone gone down this route?

[lynners]

Hi scruffymax,

Yes I still like the idea of actual set naps.  I think the intention of the other ladies was to first reduce our A times and then set actual times - is that right Kara, Bec, Ima shel Anon?

But you went from long A's to reduced and set naps?  Maybe I should think about that otherwise I'll just be re-setting things for my chap again when I set nap times. 

I'm not sure I could follow a book re. set nap times as I've got school runs to work around which make things rather tricky.

If anyone can help with the set times,  (whether I start now or soon ?) in my day are -

ideal WU time - 7.00 am
School drop off - 8.45 - 9.05
School pick up - 3.10 - 3.30
Ideal BT - 7.00 pm

The problem is I either have one big nap after drop-off with either two small ones either side of pick-up which is not ideal, or push him until after pick-up for a longer nap - tricky.

[scruffymax]

The book I tend to follow has an option for low sleep needs, which is waking 6-6:30am (when baby naturally wakes, you resettle if they wake before then, and get them up if they're not up by 7am), 6:30/7am milk, 8:45am "bridging nap" of 19-20 mins max up to 9:30am max, 12pm sleep to 2:30pm max, 4:15pm bridging nap of 20 mins max up to 5pm max, 7pm bedtime. 

I have not used this routine of "bridging naps" with a large sleep in the middle of the day and I think the idea is you can stick with this routine for a long time and they just eventually drop the afternoon bridge and then the morning bridge.  I've used the one for average sleep needs, which for 5.5 month olds is naps at 9-10:15/10:30am and 1-2:30/2:45pm.  Obviously this one wouldn't fit in with your routine for the first nap due to school drop off, but the next routine (for 6 month olds) is sleeps at 9:30-11am and 1:30-3pm which would fit and you could probably jump straight to this. 

With all of these you get bub up by 7am if not already awake, and bedtime is 7pm.  She does suggest limiting the naps to 1hr 15 each to start with (if "average" sleep needs not "high") and then let bub increase to 1hr 30 if they are doing consistent naps.  I didn't do this though - we get the odd catnap but it tends to sort itself out within a few days if I stick with the routine, or if not I know it's time to go up to the next routine.

[Ima shel Alon]

I think the intention of the other ladies was to first reduce our A times and then set actual times - is that right Kara, Bec, Ima shel Anon?

mmm... that was not my understanding, but maybe I missed something  I never did set naps so can't give any advice about it, but seems like some people have and it worked well for them.
It's really up to you what you prefer to do 

Re your EASY I would try and stick to the 3-3:10h A you are giving now because if you look at the day before and yesterday, you can already see a huge improvement.
The 20:30 NW sounds like OT and probably his A before BT was a bit too long. I can't see a way to escape that for the next few days till your A and naps settle more. Usually at this age LO still have a CN that brings him to BT, but because your DS is on an high A you are right saying that there is not enough time till BT. I could imagine it sorting itself out in a few days in a way that you will have 3x3h A time = 9h + 2x1.5h naps which will bring you to a 12h day.

[lynners]

you can already see a huge improvement.

Thank you, Ima Shel Alon,  I needed that!  I'm worried though that as he previously woke up in the night OT with 3 hours to BT, it could well be worse today as we ended up with more than 4 hours to BT because we couldn't get a CN in and I couldn't get him down to bed for BT as quick as I would have liked to because I was getting DS1's dinner. 

Scruffy Max, with the 6 month routine do you know why she suggests such a large amount of time until BT from the 2nd nap, while the time to the 1st and 2nd naps is much smaller.  Yes it work with  the school run which is great but t does seem a long time to BT and my LO didn't deem to cope on 3 hours to BT.

Anyway to day was -
WU 6.15
E 6.40
S 9.15 - 9.45 (On bus in to town, could have woken OS, although quiet,standard morning, but he did wake up so quickly and fully)
E 11.00
S 11.50 - 14.20 Great nap but couldn't get down for a CN at 4.00.  After trying to settle for ages I had to get him up so I could sort out DS1's dinner - the joys of more than one kid!
E 14.30
E 18.00
BT 18.30
 

[scruffymax]

Scruffy Max, with the 6 month routine do you know why she suggests such a large amount of time until BT from the 2nd nap, while the time to the 1st and 2nd naps is much smaller.  Yes it work with  the school run which is great but t does seem a long time to BT and my LO didn't deem to cope on 3 hours to BT.

To be honest, I always thought it was too long when I first started following this routine and I used to make the second nap later and bedtime 6:30pm.  BUT... I only got a long afternoon nap maybe half of the time.  When I eventually followed the routine exactly, LO started taking a longer afternoon nap and sleeping in later in the morning.  Go figure.  It doesn't make sense to me but I think it is to do with the body clock - if they "know" they've got a big break between second nap and bedtime, their body makes sure they take a longer afternoon nap.

[*Kara*]

I think it is to do with the body clock - if they "know" they've got a big break between second nap and bedtime, their body makes sure they take a longer afternoon nap

^^ This is very true   Much like how a nice long AM nap can perpetuate an LO to wake far too early in the morning.. their body knows that they have a big nap coming soon enough, so may as well get up with the sun

[lynners]

Hmmm interesting.  I'm definitely liking the idea of the set naps, particularly with my school runs.  Funnily enough the one that you said scruffymax for 6 months would work for our starting time today anyway.  He woke at about 6.20 so the 3 hour-ish A would be sleep at 9.30 ish.  Tempted to start today.

Few questions please-   

scruffymax,
- what book do you follow and how often does the set nap routine change?  I suppose my concern is that I don't have much flexibility in the afternoon re. times because of school pick up so although this routine works well now, where am I heading in the future.

- I suppose the times given are the actual nap times and I need to allow time to get to sleep?

Kara,
- do you think it makes sense to go to set naps now, a we've reduced the A pretty much in line with the times suggested by scruffymax?  I can see that with scruffymax's suggestion it makes sense to cap the naps, particularly the first as you wouldn't have enough time for an LO to get tired before the second nap.
- How did you work your set naps, particularly without ever waking LO up?

[scruffymax]

Hi Lynners, I don't think we're meant to talk about other authors on here so I will (try to work out how to) PM you.

Those times are when you put LO down for a nap - if they don't go to sleep straight away, you continue with the same wake up times, under the same theory that their body clock will catch up. 

There is a 6-8 month routine, 9-11 month routine (naps 10-11:30 and 2:15/2:30-3:30/4:00), 12-13 months (naps 10:15-11:30/11:45, 2:30/3-3:15/4:15), then a 14-15 month until they drop to one nap (naps 10:45 and catnap at 3:30).

I really don't know that there's a way you can get around your LO's nap times changing over the next few months, unless you go with the bridging naps morning and afternoon and big midday sleep.

I was just thinking after I wrote back to you earlier and you were asking about the big gap between the second nap and bedtime, when my LO was 5 months she was definitely still having a late afternoon catnap and didn't drop that til about 6.5 months I think.  That 3rd nap was always APOP'ed though (pram, carrier or rocking chair) - which I imagine is nearly impossibly when you have a toddler.

[Ima shel Alon]

Hi Lynners, I don't think we're meant to talk about other authors on here so I will (try to work out how to) PM you.

If you press on Lynners user name there will be a new window with her profile and on the left side there is a link that says "send personal message".

[*Kara*]

I only have DD so never had a need to wake her to leave the house.

She did this at 5.5 months...

Wake 5am
Nap 8-10
Nap 1-3
BT 8pm.  Total sleep 14 hrs with no DF, NF etc. 

It was a long day but any changes to it just caused a wicked OT baby... part of set naps is figuring out what works for your LOs natural clock

As for scruffy's suggestions, I am not a fan of waking a baby from a nap at this age.

[lynners]

Ok well thanks everyone.

Completely coincidentally today our day pretty much ran in accordance with scruffymax's suggestion -

WU 6.17
E 6.40
S 9.35 - 10.45 Woke up at 40 mins, settled himself in a few minutes, then woke naturally at 10.45
E 11.00
S 1.35 - 3.00 Again woke up for a few mins at 40 mins, but had to wake him at 3.00 to get to DS1's carol singing (Didn't get back til later because of carols.  No chance for a CN)
E 4.30
E 6.30
S 6.50

Kara, I think I probably agree that I'd rather not wake him up from a nap but I don't really see what option I have working around the school runs.

If we follow about a 3 hour A before the first nap, then 9.30 for the first nap is a good time, but to fit in another nap before I leave at 3.10, waking up following scruffymax's times would do it.

My other option is to leave him to wake up from his first nap when he wants to and have a second nap after school pick up, but reading your following comment

part of set naps is figuring out what works for your LOs natural clock

   

makes me nervous of this - he is generally difficult to get down for a nap after school pick-up - especially with DS1 running around!

Of course though I am instilled with the BW understanding that a nap needs to be at least 11/2 - 2 hours long to be properly restorative and scruffymax's naps will probably be 1 h20-25.

Aaaahhh...difficult to decide.  Maybe if we get through tonight without an NW or too much of an EW, I might stick with 9.30-11 and 1.30 - 3 naps tomorrow...although wouldn't you know it, as it's DS1's last day at school before Christmas tomorrow he needs picking up at 2.00     I would put DS2 to sleep in his buggy and cross my fingers that he stays asleep during pick-up. 

Hmmm...any hand holding out there?
 

[scruffymax]

Good luck... how are the NW going?  I really hope you work out what works for you.  Every baby is different so that's why there's so much conflicting advice!  So if DS1 is on holidays after today you'll have more of a chance to work with DS2's sleep needs right?  I'm sure that will be good for him.  TBH I still am really surprised that a 5MO is surviving on only 2 naps every day!  But there you go, just another example of how they're all different.  I have only really been strict with waking DD from naps in the last couple of months - at 5 months I was letting her sleep longer if she wanted to, but I only have the one child so could do that.  Poor second (and subsequent) children just have to fit in with the rest of the family don't they!

[*Kara*]

Every baby is different so that's why there's so much conflicting advice!

And these babies have read none of it so they don't always do as they are supposed to

[lynners]

Yes you're right, so many different babies and so much different advice!!!

Anyway we have now had day 3 following the set routine.

Yesterday again naturally fell in to a similar day to the set routine if we were following A's so I just pushed it a little to fit with the set routine.  Unfortunately we only ended up with 2 x 40 min naps due to visitors, noise etc. but as DS1 finished school early we managed to sneak a 20min CN in buggy going to playground.  So not a great day,  BUT even with that LO had no NW's and slept through til 7!

Encouraged by the fact that even with such a rubbish day on the routine he could have such a great night I decided to stick at it today and we got this -

WU and E 7.00
S 9.40 - 11.00 - woke up as will have to do when school is on to fit in second nap.
S 13.35 - 15.15 - left to sleep a little longer as was thinking when we're back at school I will put LO in his buggy at home for this nap and then push him to school at 3.10 so thinking he may be able to get a bit more than 13.35 - 15.00.
BT 18.55

So all in all this set routine seems to be really working for us  .  Also in the New Year, MIL will be looking after DS2 during school hours one day a week.  There is no way she would be working out A times for him, but would follow at least follow a set routine I hope.  So yes feel like it will really work for us - so far so good.
 

[becj86]

So yes feel like it will really work for us - so far so good.

Yay!