Set naps for a 5 month old - has anyone gone down this route?

[lynners]

Hmmmm.  Tricky.

I am thinking that this schedule is not quite working but really don't know where to go.

On this one he got to the stage that he was only having 40m for the first nap but wasn't when we first tried it which makes me think that 40m napping is not developmental because he can definitely go longer when it's 'right'.   

WU 7.00
School run 8.45 - 9.05
Nap 1 9.30 - 11.00
Nap 2 13.30 - 15.00
School run 15.10 - 15.30
BT 19.00

On the following we've been generally getting an hour first nap, and a second nap which is longer but is interrupted by the school run.

WU 7.00
School run 8.45 - 9.05
Nap 1 9.45-11:15
Nap 2 14:00-15.30
School run 15.10 - 15.30
BT 19.00

We've only been on this for 5 days though so I would probably be happy to just keep trying this for longer but today we got this which is making me re-think -

WU 7.00
School run 8.45 - 9.05
Nap 1 9.45-10.30/45 Missed exactly when he woke up as was on phone for work.
Nap 2 13:00-15.10 (Fell asleep when we were out as he was in buggy - but clearly was ready for a long sleep as I had him back in the house in the buggy only after about 20 minutes and he lasted until he woke up as we left for school)
School run 15.10 - 15.30
Grizzly by about 5-ish as if ready for sleep.
BT 18.45

What I had been doing was if he short napped I would put him down at 13.45 rather than 14.00.  This seems to be too late though judging by today.  Any opinions?

...and maybe I just keep Nap 1's put down time as is and hope he settles in to it???  Would feel nervous to take him back 15 mins again as he was definitely only getting 40m then.

[lynners]

Aaaahhh so today was this -

7.00 WU
9.50 - 10.35 Nap 1
LO Started to fall asleep in buggy at 12.30 so carried him home and put him to bed at  13.30 -
13.50 - 14.30 Nap 2
Am going to put LO to bed at 18.30 instead of 19.00

So when we upped his A by 15 mins he was at least getting a one hour nap and then a 1 1/2 - 2 hour nap ...now we're back to 40m naps.


This is how we ended up with crazy high A's before - increasing every time he started short napping.

Feel so lost.  Love the regularity of set naps and his nights are great but days are still an enigma.

Please help.

[becj86]

See, at 6 months, DS was on a solid 3hr if not a little more, so I don't think 2hr50 would've given us any more than a 45min nap at that age He was HSN (high sleep totals in 24hr) and high A time, so needed his lots of sleep in big chunks, mostly at night.

[lynners]

Boo we had a 2.00 am NW after our day yesterday.  Took a good 45 minutes to settle.  Very upset.

I think my LO is definitely more like yours in terms of following A's Bec.  It wasn't so long ago we were on about 4 h30m!  Because it was getting so crazy high I was really hoping that 'setting his body clock' to take set naps would help.  Don't know whether to just chase A's again 

Kara, scruffymax when going with a new set nap routine, what tended to happen in terms of naps while your LO's settled

e.g. When we moved from 1st routine to second by increasing A by 15 mins, naps were good to begin with then starting 40m napping again.  Did you just stick to the routine and ride it out?  We are now up to day 7 on this new one.  Will stick to same 1st nap time today.  Not sure about second nap time?

 

 

[scruffymax]

Kara, scruffymax when going with a new set nap routine, what tended to happen in terms of naps while your LO's settled

The 1st time we tried, DD was around 4.5 months, and either she wasn't ready or the routine wasn't right as her naps were inconsistent - 40 mins some days, 2hrs other days (UT/OT loop?) I think after a number of weeks I adjusted the set nap times and found times that suited.  We then almost always had a good (1.5hr+) morning nap and a very inconsistent afternoon nap.  We extended afternoon A times for a while and would get a day or 2 of good afternoon naps and then back to 40mins.  Then (around 7 months I think?) we went to the routines from the book I told you about, which involved capping the am nap, bringing the pm nap earlier and making BT later, and the afternoon naps became more consistent within a few days.  We had a good couple of months of completely consistent morning naps so it was a big shock to get a 40 min one the first time it happened!  Once we had a few of them and they were getting frequent we moved up to the next routine and that improved things.  The morning nap has always been our most reliable one and the afternoon a bit more inconsistent but it's pretty good really.

[lynners]

Thanks scruffymax,

That helps    So when you started the set naps from the book was the 'first A' similar to what you already had?  And you didn't first go through a stage where your LO long napped, then started short napping and you had to stick with it to get long naps again?

As you know we're already on the 9-11 month one and would rather not have to move up - especially because that pushes the afternoon nap to only about 30 mins before leaving for school pick-up which means it will hard to get past a 40 min afternoon nap.

We did manage to get an hour first nap today which was great but I think he is genuinely UT at this point.

I feel quite lost as to what to do.  Think I might keep trying this for a few days and see...hmmm...

[scruffymax]

So when you started the set naps from the book was the 'first A' similar to what you already had? 

Yes, the first nap time was the same as what we had already been doing.  The afternoon nap was earlier than what we had been doing and BT was half an hour later that what we had been doing.

You will know when you have given this enough of a go and if it's just not working for you.  The other thing to consider would be that "other" routine with a very short morning catnap and a big nap in the middle of the day.  That's the option for low sleep needs babies in this book, and I've also seen something very similar in another book.

[lynners]

Hi scruffymax,

Thanks for the reminder of the bridging naps idea.  When I first read it I thought it sounded so alien from the BW way with capping a nap so much for the first nap of the day but actually looking at his natural rhythms this may be a lot closer  to what his body wants to do.

I found your previous post where you mentioned it...

 

The book I tend to follow has an option for low sleep needs, which is waking 6-6:30am (when baby naturally wakes, you resettle if they wake before then, and get them up if they're not up by 7am), 6:30/7am milk, 8:45am "bridging nap" of 19-20 mins max up to 9:30am max, 12pm sleep to 2:30pm max, 4:15pm bridging nap of 20 mins max up to 5pm max, 7pm bedtime. 

Sorry to be a pain but would you mind listing all the routines for each of the 'needs' - low, average and high because I' still not sure what he actually is.  I think he might be average or high just that I haven't cracked his napping rhythm.  It would be great too if you could list all the months as well, 6-8, 9-11 etc. so I can get a full understanding of where this would head us and if it's going to work around the dreaded school run.

I suppose my concern is that with such a diferent routine it may mess up his nights because even though the day isn't going overly well he tends to be asleep by 6.45 and I wake him at 7.00 am - lovely!

Anyway I really appreciate your help.  Fingers crossed.  This may be the solution.

[Erin M]

My thought is with your school run being as it is, you're going to have to sacrifice one of your naps as a short nap -- when ds was that age, he always fell asleep on the PM school run and never slept once the car stopped moving, so that one was always short -- meant we had some OT wake ups at night while he was working through it, but he did eventually settle in.  I'm wondering if you stick with nap 1 around 10 AM and see if you can get a good nap there -- although that leaves you with a short PM nap with way too many hours until BT.  I think it's just going to take some playing around until you find the right balance.  If he does all his sleeping before the PM school run, you're stuck with way too many hours until BT.  If he does his sleeping after it, you're probably going to have to shorten his nap in the afternoon so he can get to bed on time.  If you want to stick with capped naps (and if it seems like it would work, I'd go for it), I'd probably do a longer (3-3:30) first A time and then do a shorter nap after the PM school run.  That should give you 2 set times to work with - and while not ideal, it's probably the best you can do with the school run being as it is. 

[lynners]

Hi Erin,

Thanks for your input.  I think you're right and I should probably go for one long and one short nap. 

I put LO down at 10 today and he still short napped.  By 1.00 am he looked exhausted so I put him down and got a 2hour nap only interrupted by the school run.  I think my problem is that if I try and get a good nap for the first one I'll just end up chasing A's like I did before.  Maybe if I just accept that the first one is going to be a short one and try for a good second one it might actually happen.   

I think I've probably got two options along these lines.


WU 7.00
Nap 1 9.15 - 10.00
Nap 2 12.15 - 14.15, hopefully at least but giving the option of sleeping longer to school pick up
... then post pick up if there's any chance of getting a CN we will but most days we'll probably have to go for an EBT of 6.30

or...

WU 7.00
Nap 1 10-10.45
Nap 2 13.00 - 15.10 School pick up, or later if stays asleep in buggy
... then same as previous ... post pick up if there's any chance of getting a CN we will but most days we'll probably have to go for an EBT of 6.30

First option we at least have a chance of getting as long a second nap as possible, but it may only be 2 hours leaving a crazy long time to BT.

Any opinions which to try out first?

Meanwhile scruffymax, if you don't mind still posting the bridging nap options I'd appreciate it as another option to consider.

Thanks so much for your help ladies.



 

[lynners]

So not a great day -

WU 7.20 ( I slept through alarm.  normally wake him at 7)
Nap 1 9.30 - 10.30 ( Think it was only a 40 min sometime between these times.  Missed exact times as busy with DS1.  Put down at 9.30 as getting cranky/tired surprisingly early - at least helped make decision with PD time)
Nap 2 13.20 - 14.00 ( Put down at 12.45 but very upset/OT?  Had to shush for 35 mins to get to sleep.
Tried to get a CN in at 15.45 but wasn't having any of it.

Plan to have an 18.15 BT.  Another evening of cooking DS1's dinner with a tired DS2 in my arms 

Thank goodness his nights are good because his days are rubbish.  Yep, 2 x 40m naps.

[scruffymax]

Hi Lynners,

he book I tend to follow has an option for low sleep needs, which is waking 6-6:30am (when baby naturally wakes, you resettle if they wake before then, and get them up if they're not up by 7am), 6:30/7am milk, 8:45am "bridging nap" of 19-20 mins max up to 9:30am max, 12pm sleep to 2:30pm max, 4:15pm bridging nap of 20 mins max up to 5pm max, 7pm bedtime.

According to the book, the main nap and bridging naps are always at the same times - you just drop the afternoon bridging nap first, and then the morning bridging nap, when your LO is ready.  Sorry you are having a rough time.  It does sound like these times aren't working for your LO.  It's such a trial and error process isn't it.

[lynners]

Thanks so much scruffymax. 

That really helps - now to try and figure out what works for us and school runs.

[lynners]

See, at 6 months, DS was on a solid 3hr if not a little more, so I don't think 2hr50 would've given us any more than a 45min nap at that age  He was HSN (high sleep totals in 24hr) and high A time, so needed his lots of sleep in big chunks, mostly at night.

Bec, just wondering what you meant by your LO needing most of his sleep at night ^^^. 

How long did he actually sleep at night, and what did he tend to get during the day? 

As my LO has only been getting 2 x 40 min naps sometimes (again today!) I've been putting him to bed early but he still manages to have a great night sleep.  Last night for example he slept from 6.15 pm until I woke him at 7.  I'm waking him at 7 to try and set his body clock and get him in to this set nap routine but I assume he could probably do more at night time (or at least when he hasn't much sleep during the day.)

I suppose I'm contemplating whether I could put him down even earlier on a 2 x 40min nap day, or perhaps let him wake naturally in the morning - especially as night sleep is more restorative.

[becj86]

Bec, just wondering what you meant by your LO needing most of his sleep at night ^^^. 

How long did he actually sleep at night, and what did he tend to get during the day? 

I'll hunt out a routine from close to then so I get it right Pretty sure he was doing at least 12hr at night.