New thread! EASY still off...

[My little Liam]

Back from holidays and sleep is BAD. Actually it is always bad, we can't seem to catch a break. There is always something... While on holiday LIam got his first tooth and was very seek the week after so night sleep has been horrible. Naps have been in the stroller most of the time since we were always out visiting friends and family. We have been back for about five days and he has been back sleeping in his crib but we are still having bad sleep, day and night! For some reason DS is waking every 2.5-3hrs at night! I don't know if it is a routine problem, SA or maybe he is just hungry?? He relaxes and goes back to sleep when I BF but wakes again 2.5-3hrs later! I have gotten to BF 2-3 times per night again and we were almost at the point of weaning the last NF before vacation. I have been doing PS so he does go to sleep independantly, and I have also tried doing PD during the night to hold off the NF but he will fall asleep for 15-30 min and then wake again, this can happen 2-3 times until I finally feed him and then he sleeps longer. Does that sound like hunger to you? Maybe he is eating too many solids? He LOVES food! And he never says no or shows he is full! I always have to stop offering or he will eat until he explodes!  maybe I need to cut back a bit? I never know if he is eating too much or too little? He used to be such a chubby baby but since he started crawling and pulling up 2 months ago he has become so skinny! I don't know if that is normal or if he is isnt eating enough??
I am going to start tracking his days again from tomorrow morning and will post because thes NW are killing me, and Pd is not working

[jessmum46]

(((Hugs))) for the rough time - holidays, teeth and illness are not a good combination when it comes to sleep!

Did you have any time change when you travelled?  Could you post a routine when you've tracked it including how much milk he has during the day and solids?

I'm not sure what PS is?  Or did you mean PD? 

What is your bedtime routine?

[My little Liam]

Sorry it has taken me a few days to get back to you! We have been having a rough time...
I am really starting to think the situation has to do with SA. He screams before every nap, at BT, and in the middle of the night and wants me to put my hand next to his face for him to fall asleep. He is screaming more and harder than when we first did PD. the problem is we never got to the point with PD where I could immediately leav th room. I always had to stand next to the crib so now I am trying to do GW but the screaming is unbearable and we have barely slept for a week. I think he is also teething since he is chewing on everything but I don't think it bothers him too much. I have given him neurophen at night without much difference.  He is also STILL coughing since last being sick 2 weeks ago and he wakes at night coughing constantly. We have a doctors app today to check on that. Anyways, everything e he wakes at night, for whatever reason, he cries hysterically and I have to stand next to the crib for a minimum of 45 min, last night almost 2hrs, until he will fall asleep. His voice is so hoarse already from all the screaming! Maybe we have a routine problem that isn't helping things but I can't really figure it out considering by the time he falls asleep for naps after screaming he is OT.
When we were on holiday, all naps were in the stroller and he would usually fall asleep after 3hrs A (which is much lower than the average I think?) but he was very stimulated there so I guess that's why.... We were getting naps of 1.5hrs but were still having bad nights since he was sick, teething, and such...

Tis is what I have been doing for the past few days

WU 0700
A 3hr30-40 depending when he falls asleep
A 3hr-3hr30
BT 1900-1930 depending on day

[My little Liam]

Oops just noticed that I didn't answer any of your questions...

There was a time difference but only of an hour so I don't think it made much of a difference.
I also don't think milk or solids are the problem anymore.
Our BT routine is 20 min relaxing walking around the house, taking a bath, pj's, Bf then put down awake with paci (he knows how to replug)

I am trying to get him used to a lovey but for now he just gets angry when I put it next to him and he throws it to the other side of the crib.

Since 3hr30 a hasn't been working the last week or so I tried this morning nap to put him down after 3hr45. It still took 10 min for him to fall asleep but the screaming wasn't as bad. He fell asleep at 3hr55 A. Lets hope for the best...


This was our night last night

BT 1900
NW 2200-2235
NW 2240-2355
NW 0340-0415 BF
EW 0530 BF I know that's bad but there was no way he would go back to sleep otherwise...
WU 0700

I also want to mention that I have been using this week to wean the 2300 feed. I figured if he is already screaming might as well have him scream once instead of going through it again in a few weeks time. I want to wean the 0300 feed too but I'll give it a few more days.

I can live with a 0530 feed for a while if he needs it. Do you think it's possible at his age?

[My little Liam]

Short nap... 30 minutes. Woke coughing. I don't know if he woke because of the cough, though.
Is it possible that he actually has a really low A of around 3hrs like when we were on holiday? The naps were in the stroller but we weren't constantly moving. Usually once he fell asleep we would sit down so he wasn't staying asleep because of the movement. That is the last time I had a good nap of 1.5 hrs.
The last week on 3hr30-40 has been 55 min, 1hr05, 1hr15
What do you think?

[jessmum46]

He could have needed shorter A times on holiday because of being over stimulated by new situations.  It may be now that he is back at home that he needs a touch more - my LO was comfortably handling 4h plus at that age.  Those nap lengths you posted would be typically UT, though discomfort and major OT can also cause odd naps lengths.  Did he get less sleep than usual on holiday?

I'm not sure about just SA....if that was the only issue he should settle with you there, but it doesn't sound like he is doing that. 

Have you been back to the doctors about the cough?  That could certainly be disturbing his sleep and making him uncomfortable.

[My little Liam]

Yes he got much less sleep on holiday... Naps were usually ok since in stroller but nights were shorter since we had many family at hearings in the evenings and then he was sick which made sleep even worse.

Anyways, we went to the doctor Hester and we got an inhaler for him so the cough should start to get better but I think he is coming down with another cold. He as a runny nose again.

I was thinking of trying set nap times as I have been so stressed out about naps these last few months and with so little sleep at night I feel like I am loosing it a little, but now that he might be sick again I feel like all our bad habits will be coming back ( he always wants to BF to sleep for naps when sick otherwise he becomes hysterical and he coughs and gets so stuffy that he chokes). Should I keep to set nap times even if I apop them and then continue with PD at those same ties when he is feeling better?

By the way, every time I start to wean NF he gets sick, it's ridiculous! How can I not BF him at night when sick? I know I get very thirsty at night when I am sick.... We are ever going to get past these NF. I feel like he suffers for nothing every time!

[jessmum46]

When he's sick you need to try to just go with the flow - he will likely need more sleep than normal so sticking to set times will probably just make you both miserable.  My LO had a really bad night with a temperature last night and has crashed out in bed for a nap at just after 8am - normal set nap time is 11.30!  Just do what you need to and then once he's better you can try set nap times and work on breaking props if you need to.

Do you have an idea of when you want to set your naps for?  I see you've been following charjanemom's thread

[My little Liam]

Yes i was thinking somthing like
Wu 0700
nap 1 1000
nap 2 1430
BT 1930

last night was horrible he is so sick! Fever, stuffy nose, cough for the second time this month! He cant breathe and use his paci so he slept on me last night an woke every 40-1hr. It was torture!

[jessmum46]

(((Hugs))) to you both - we're sleeping in 30 minute bursts here too

Routine looks good when he's feeling better.  I'd try to stick to it for a week at least and then you can tweak if one or both of the naps is consistently short.

[My little Liam]

Alright I'll try that. DS isn't great with going back to sleep when OT though, if I try to resettle he just gets worked up... Do you think that could be a problem with set naps?

[jessmum46]

Not necessarily - though if he doesn't handle OT well (as in eventually crash and do a long nap or night to catch up) set naps may not be the best for him.  All you can do is try really 

[My little Liam]

Well i havent started the set naps yet since has been sick...
im still wondering if it is the right choice. It cant hurt to try since his already OT anyways but since he is bad at handling OT and he fights naps when he is UT, i am startin to doubt set naps. The last few days i have been watching him closely and i took in to account the fact that you said his morning nap at 3hr40 seem UT to you and i have been trying higher A's although i have been BF sleep since he hasent been feeling well.
This morning i got 1.5hr nap on 4hr05 A, so thats good.
My main problem in the past 2 months has been the second nap. In the past i have done similar A's as the morning but that never worked. The past two days he has been showing signs at 2hr40 A. Is it possible that he has such a low second A? It seems so strange but i got a nap of 1hr45 and another of 1.5hr. Both BF to sleep. Is it possible that it is brcause i am BF to sleep that he is sleeping no matter ehat A or is it a sign that thes are thr correct A's?
Regarding BT i put him down yesterday after 2hr45 A and had a waking 40 min later
tonight i put him down after 2hr30 A and had a waking after 1hr40.
Could he be OT after such a short A to BT?

Seems strange to hav such a high first A and hen such a dramatic reduction in A times... What do you think?

[My little Liam]

Ok maybe you should ignore everything from the previous post  ....
BT after 2.5hr A, woke after 1.5hrs chatting and again every 2-3 hrs, chatting and restless...
I thought constant wake ups early in the evening were OT but this is obviously UT, no? We have been having restless sleep through first half of the night for a while now. He tosses and turns even when he doesn't wake.... Could that mean UT too? Maybe I have been putting him down too early for BT the past few months?
You said your DD was around 4hr A at that age. Could you tell me what her A's were like through out the day?  What was her routine like at this age?

[jessmum46]

We always had trouble with the second nap - it was very rarely more than 40 mins but I just went with it.  She was doing probably 4h A, 1h20-30 nap, 4-4.5h A (we hit pm nap resistance by 9 months), 40-45 mins nap (I generally woke her by then or BT would be too late), 2-2.5h A to BT. 

Restless sleep in the first part of the night is usually discomfort or OT here  . We do sometimes get chatty NWs which are OT - it's like she's too hyper to sleep.

I know another poster on here had great success with set naps after continuing to chase the second A time and always getting a short nap - I'll see if she can pop on here and offer her experience