Author Topic: bit concerend about calcium intake  (Read 7060 times)

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Offline ZacsMumme

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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2013, 23:29:14 pm »
Yay the custard was a success.
It's so tough, Z barely eats after 4 and I've discovered that he eats best at breakfast, then snacks at 9,11/12 (usually things like a sandwich, banana, custard yogurt, a cracker etc) then his main meal at 4pm after his nap. I mentioned this to plunket and she said 'they just get tired at this age so don't eat well after 4-5' - I said but he gets tons of sleep YK....and she said 'its not about sleep forem, it's just they are rapidly growing, learning, working out how the world works that they just get tired by then period', it's not sleepy tired, it's probably more as we would say OS or worn out from the day in general.

I found this interesting and certainly seems the case with Z. :-\ our best meals are breakie and after nap, so well rested ;)

Also, she said a portion is the size of their fist. They don't need a lot, so if a toddler has 1 good meal to us, it's likely 50% of their daily needs in food. It's just balancing the food intake that's tough!

Does he still have formula at all Hun? - only reason Z has a BT bottle is to keep his iron intake up ::)
***Sara***
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Offline We Three

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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2013, 23:32:08 pm »
 Awww, (((hugs)))  I didn't mean to make you feel bad or worried.  I think that you're right, he's tiny, so he hasn't room for all this "stuff"....but there are some things that I see, some ways to get more calcium into him. I feel the same way about juice...dd didn't have any until she started preschool at 4...I hear you. She has it occasionally now, (organic, and it's pre-watered down too!) but 80% of her fluid still comes in the form of water., The other 20 is milk.  The calcium fortified orange juice is easy to find, and if you water it down, you might feel better about the sweetness of it....and it has alot of calcium!
 Get the powdered milk....you will find that you can put that in so many things I bet! Pancake mix, eggy bread mix, muffins.  Portion sizes for his age are so small, I still think you are likely doing better than you think you are!

 Yes, by all means....breathe....he's ok, and you are a great Mom!!! 

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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2013, 00:14:45 am »
I didn't mean to make you feel bad or worried
No, you haven't made me worried, only I was already quite worried and now that I've looked more closely it has become clear I really do need to DO something, not just let it go. That's a good thing.  A few tears for me today is nothing compared to keeping him healthy and giving him a good start to life.  Sometimes tears and worry are good, they make us act.

I think I'm realistic about portion sizes, I have a list of portion sizes handy for checking on whenever I feel a bit concerned.  When I look at the list I know he really cannot eat that much, he just can't, so I am realistic about it.  3 portions of grains today rather than 6 for example.  I aim for 1 portion of protein per day (rather than 2) and hope for say 5 or 6 days out of 7.  Some days (today) he has zero veg, others he will have 2 servings or even lots more than that, so this is fine really, although there's veg he likes and veg he doesn't.  Maybe some of the veg that he does like has some calcium in it, I saw another list that mentioned peas which weren't on the list you posted, he likes peas and sometimes I give him a tablespoon of frozen peas for a snack instead of fruit or crackers etc.
I never knew calcium was even in vegetables until now.

He hasn't had formula for over a year.  Just full fat cows milk.
I'm getting that powdered milk for sure and I think I'll even add some to his morning milk so that whatever amount he drinks is double dose calcium!

We are currently having the evening meal at 5.30pm but meal times are always based around DS's needs and when he eats well.  The main meal used to be at 3.30pm (and lunch was around 10.30am!), that's how flexible I am.  I don't care what time I eat, I adapt to it.  But gradually it went later because his nap went later and he wasn't hungry enough for an earlier meal.  He is waking from his nap between 4 and 4.30 when he sleeps properly (3.30 when he wakes screaming with pain) and has no appetite when he wakes (might have a small portion of sultanas or a clementine after a while).  I have recently been considering shifting it a little earlier again, to 5.00pm because he's getting a little antsy waiting for dinner, but that's really recent.  I also give him a proper cooked lunch most days (even just a fast pasta with veg packed tom sauce and cheese) because at times he will have it, other times not a bite.  But the offer is there, yk, if that's when he has a bigger appetite.

If he had just continued to take his morning milk I wouldn't have worried.


Offline We Three

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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2013, 00:43:14 am »
Will he drink that morning milk throughout the day? 

Offline C&B&E

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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2013, 02:55:20 am »
Do you think he might be mpi  :-\?

I add green leafy veggies into homemade veg and tomato sauces-I whizz them up in the food processor so they are undetectable.

What does his daily diet look like? I wonder if we could help you to tweak it if we had more of an idea what he will actually eat.
Claire x



Offline Cat_ot

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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2013, 08:10:00 am »
Hi
my son has CMP intolerence and is on soya, i saw dietician last wk as part of usual routine and had the same querie. DS normally has 150ml milk and 1 youghurt/custard during day and this was giving his calcium intake to 4.8, 5 is low and 8 was we were to aim for. she offered us a liquid calcium replacmeent but im going to look at his diet. but thought the sums may help you as basically if they had 300ml milk and 2 yoghurts/custard/rice pudding etc they would meet requirement.

Offline barbaraz78

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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2013, 09:02:48 am »
if they had 300ml milk and 2 yoghurts/custard/rice pudding etc they would meet requirement
This seems a LOT to me... I don't know many child that eat so much milk/yogurt, and I don't think that DS eats so much in a day.
Barbara


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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2013, 09:08:29 am »
I don't think mpi because he wasn't ill enough as a baby to suggest any intolerance.  He had silent reflux which at it's worst became spit ups (up to 3hrs after a feed) and then we got meds which he still takes.  They haven't been increased for a long long time as there doesn't appear to have been a need.
2ml ranitidine morning and 2ml evening.
carobel milk thickener in his morning milk as this is (was) the larger drink.
The evening sippy of milk is so small (a few sips) there is no need to thicken.
In the past we had occasions of vomiting water if he drank too much in one go, eg with a new straw cup or water bottle etc he would e so excited about the new cup he would drink lots for the fun of it then throw up.

We did BLW and he tried just about everything he was offered, a wide variety of things, only he rarely liked anything mushy or bitty or liquidy so no mash potato or rice for example and no cereal with milk like wheetabix or oats because it's mushy (although ate lots of humous which is mushy).  He ate very little in the way of meat or fish but at that young age he did try them.  He still tries them sometimes now but he mostly recognizes meat and fish and doesn't want it.
Because of a previous worry about protein I've made breakfast a protein meal because he is hungry then and it means I can relax about protein the rest of the day.  I got totally fed up of making home made meatballs and meat or bean burgers in the hopes of tempting him he only once ate meat balls and about twice home made meat burgers a very small amount.  he did eat bean fritters/pancake/burger type things but it was a bit random based on seasoning and flavours.

Morning WU milk was about 150-180ml, now about 50-100ml

Breakfast:
1 sausage (yes not great, but I buy the best quality I can)
or
1 egg omelet
or
eggy bread (half slice bread half an egg)
(all these he has 1-2 tsp of ketchup to dip)
about 1 day per week we have toast, fruit bread toast or pancakes instead
every now and then he has muesli balls (baby muesli mixed with a couple of spoons milk to make a v thick mix and roll into balls)
plus a piece of fruit, if he has had all his protein I let him have more fruit, if he hasn't had much of the breakfast I only give a little fruit because i don't want him to replace his meals with fruit which he would do!

snack: fruit or home made mini muffin or home made pancakes or shop bought cracker
muffins are often carrot or sweet pot with dried fruit like figs, sultanas or prunes.  Sometimes banana, sometimes with added ground oats, ground almonds, or desiccated coconut, I tend to make it up on the day and freeze batches.  he often makes muffins with me and eats a load of raw grated carrot or sweet pot.

lunch:
cheese sandwich
or
pasta with tom/veg sauce and cheese
or
baked beans and tortilla/bread
or
steamed veg and bread/tortilla
plus fruit

after nap snack:
small serving dried or fresh fruit
sometimes bits of veg whilst we cook (esp if he is cooking with me), raw carrot, raw pepper

dinner:
range of meals, some slight variation for example to separate veg into piles for him rather than mixed up, sometimes some additional veg element for DS if we are having something we know he isn't going to go for.  He is regularly offered food he doesn't like to familiarise him with it (eg broccoli, fresh fish, meat) and offered dip of ketchup or lemon juice, mayo, mint sauce things like that - he'll even have a water dip.  He will also be given an extra carbs element if we have something he doesn't like, he is still given the part he doesn't like, eg rice or couscous and he gets a piece of tortilla bread, garlic bread or flat bread.
Range of stuff really, stew and dumplings, pasta dishes, meat, fish, lentils, beans, oven baked home made chips (sweet pot, pot, turnip), steamed veg, etc.  I make white sauces with cream cheese, he will eat as much as will stick to the pasta so depends how many pieces of pasta he eats, or he uses as a dip for veg. Sometimes home made pizza, chinese stir fry and noodles...
He likes/will eat (but depends on his taste that day, sometimes will have none, sometimes stuffs himself with loads)
carrots
sweet pot
sweet corn and baby corn
peppers
courgette
aubergine
mange tout
sugar snap peas
peas
asparagus
green beans
mushrooms
onion
spring onion
tomatoes


and he is offered lots of others he won't eat
cauli
broccoli
cabbage, green and red
spring greens
bean sprouts
spinach
hmm...can't think of anything else right now, but you get the idea.  I usually don't worry about the veg but now I see that he is a bit limited esp in the area of providing calcium.

After dinner some fruit, I watch out for him replacing his meal with fruit though but always let him have a little even if it is a little later as I don't use it as a treat or reward.

Supper:
sippy milk, few sips, and if he didn't eat much dinner then maybe bread stick, toast, crumpet, mini muffin or some sugar free vegi cake or pancake or a cracker.  he is generally not hungry at this time now but used to have a bit of supper so I still offer, this is 1hr before BT.

The times I've made muffins with cheese or spinach in he tried a little then wouldn't eat any of that batch even after they were frozen and brought out another time.
Well, I don't know what you can do with all that info - so much to read - sorry!
I look at his daily food and don't see anything 'bad' or 'wrong' everything that goes in his mouth is healthy and yet his intake isn't balanced now that the milk has dropped down so little.

This morning he had about 50ml milk and one of those awful milk puddings I made yesterday - he wolfed it down, about 100ml worth of milk!  So it looks good but I need to see how it effects the rest of his day because if it means he won't eat proper breakfast now then I'll be back to the no protein problem.  We'll see, it looks promising.

[posted same time - sorry but if my LO had that much milk and yogurt, not that he can have yogurt and won't take that amount of milk, but if he did, there would be literally no space left in his body to eat veg, protein or grains, it would be back to a NB diet of milk.  I don't know if he even had that much dairy as a baby!]


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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2013, 09:22:55 am »
my son has CMP intolerence and is on soya, i saw dietician last wk as part of usual routine and had the same querie. DS normally has 150ml milk and 1 youghurt/custard during day and this was giving his calcium intake to 4.8, 5 is low and 8 was we were to aim for.
Sorry I was in a rush and didn't mean to sound so off handed in my previous response to this.
It must be very worrying for you, I know it is for me.  It's quite scary to hear your LO was taking more than mine and yet still low on calcium :(

diet changes are certainly my first choice.  If I can turn this around myself I will, if not I'll go and get some supplements from the GP.


Offline Cat_ot

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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2013, 10:06:23 am »
i wasnt trying to say your son had CMPI was just giving history of my son to position im at now. im no expert and dont claim to be and just saying what was advised by dietician who worked it all out. The 300ml and 2 yoghurt/custard etc would but put him over the max calcium intake as half that is 4.8 and it is 9.6 if they had all of that (5 is low, 8 is best) so prob wouldnt need quite that much. As long as they have inbetween thats all that matters, for me it was just a useful practical guide as i was told 1pt of milk daily or cheese/yoghurt etc but struggled how to work all of that out.

sorry was just trying to help/support and show that you're not only one 

Offline barbaraz78

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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2013, 12:32:02 pm »
Creations, I am thinking that another thing that DS likes quite much (and me too!) where you can provide calcium containing vegetable like cabbage or broccoli, and dairy ingrediets, is the following: you pre-boil pieces of cabbage/broccoli (also fennel is very good) and then put them in a casserole with some milk in the bottom, then cover the vegetables with Emmental cheese and spread lots of grated Parmesan cheese on the top. Put everything in the oven so the cheese melt and the Parmesan makes a nice crust on the top. It's very good and a source of calcium!
Barbara


Offline LisaK1

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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2013, 12:46:46 pm »
If all else fails as it did for us for a while, asda sell calcium cows ( in the multi vits aisle). Understand if you dont wish to supplement this way but if diet alone doesn't work, none of us are perfect and these are a good backup. My MIL is a paed and she thought they were fine (I do have a milk and soy protein intolerant child who is also a fussy eater  so have been through similar dilemmas)
My boy is 4!

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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2013, 15:03:57 pm »
i wasnt trying to say your son had CMPI was just giving history of my son to position im at now. im no expert and dont claim to be and just saying what was advised by dietician who worked it all out.
sorry was just trying to help/support and show that you're not only one
Please don't be sorry, your input is very much appreciated.  :-*
I came across wrong in my post because I was in such a rush (after typing such a long post!) which is why I tried to pop back to apologize for it sounding wrong.  I really do appreciate your input.  :-*

It IS helpful to know what the dietician's advice is, just as it is helpful to know the guidance daily intake of all aspects of diet, I just know my DS can't eat that much.  My GP/ped/HV all said when DS took half the daily guidance of milk that I can just give him cheese and yogurt without listening that he vomited yogurt and at under 1 yr of age I was cautious with the amount of cheese because of the salt levels.  Some cheese is fine under 1yr of course but over feeding him cheese could have cause other problems due to the salt.  What I found by experimentation was instead of increasing his solids dairy to try to get him to have more if I actually decreased his solids dairy he increased his intake of milk - so basically there is a level of dairy he will eat in whatever form and no more than that.  He never read the guidelines  ::)

cabbage/broccoli (also fennel is very good) and then put them in a casserole with some milk in the bottom, then cover the vegetables with Emmental cheese and spread lots of grated Parmesan cheese on the top. Put everything in the oven so the cheese melt and the Parmesan makes a nice crust on the top. It's very good and a source of calcium!
This sounds like heaven!  DP and I would shovel that in by the barrow load - unfortunately I know DS won't touch it with a barge pole.  but I'll make it and put some on his plate all the same :)  Thanks!

Understand if you dont wish to supplement this way
i don't mind supplementing if it's needed.  In some ways I think it would be preferable to giving him lots and lots of hidden or different meals from regular stuff.  What i mean is, with a supplement there is no worry so I can continue with regular meals and hopefully in time, age, tastes changing etc and seeing the same foods over and over and mummy and daddy eating them, he will gradually learn to like cabbage etc This gives him a more 'normal' route towards a regular balanced diet.  Making lots of different foods esp for him in a way sets him up for a poorer diet even if the special foods are super healthy it teaches that eating muffins all day for breakfast lunch dinner and snacks is 'normal' when it isn't.  I am exaggerating there to make my point but in truth he already thinks it's ok to eat 'cake' every day because he gets 100% healthy vegi zero added sugar muffins sometimes with cream cheese 'frosting' (no sugar), when as an adult I know full well it is not ok (for me) to eat cake every day.

Well the shopping is done.  Lots of evaporated milk, milk powder, emmental cheese and mozzerella because I saw they have higher calcium than chedder, and a 'milk roll bread'.  Is this the only fortified bread?  Is it only white that is fortified?  I couldn't see any other but was a little distracted by DS too.  I know he'll get bunged up if he has too much sliced white bread but it's nice for him to have it now and then.


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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2013, 22:37:42 pm »
Oh the irony!  Today I made pancakes for breakfast using evaporated milk, milk powder and some ground almonds - a real calcium hit of a pancake recipe - but rather than eating between 10 - 15 of them (I think the max has been 18 before) he ate 5.  Just 5!  So I triple the calcium and he reduces his appetite by 2 thirds  ::)

The milk roll bread is going down well though.  He had a sandwich yesterday for supper and again today and loved it.  I have to look out for constipation though as last time I gave him white bread he got bunged up.

Tried him with a small drink of evaporated milk too.  He took a sip to try it but wouldn't have any more than that.

Tomorrow I'll try him with milk powder in the morning milk to boost it's power.


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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2013, 14:54:31 pm »
This isn't really working.
I've been adding a couple of teaspoons of milk powder to the morning milk and a couple of days he took it, even drank a bit more than he had been doing (still a small amount overall though) but then refused breakfast.  Breakfast is at least an hour after wu milk so it shouldn't ruin his appetite but it seems the additional milk powder makes him too full.
Then a couple of days he took some but only about half and still not very hungry for breakfast.
Today he wouldn't even put his milk straw to his mouth  ::)

We saw the health visitor recently (for 2yr development review) and she said it would be better she referred us to a dietician rather than getting supplements over the counter or from the GP.  We both agreed I'd try the various foods for a couple of weeks first so I'm still plodding on but feels like a losing battle.  Anything I make high dairy he reduces how much he takes elsewhere.  :-[