Author Topic: Can WI/WO suddenly stop being effective? Please help - don't know what to do!  (Read 5345 times)

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Offline *Becky*

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good luck!




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Offline Hayleys

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Thanks!

I’m pleased to say that my DD is continuing to sleep much better now at night.  As soon as her last molar from her first set was through it made a huge difference to her night sleep.  She still may wake perhaps once in the night, but very quickly settles, whereas before she would be extremely upset and she may take a few hours to fall back to sleep.

We’ve been staying at relatives over the Christmas break and I have been AP ing bedtime and any night wakes.  Nap time can be an issue right now though, she’ll either go down without any problem or will be crying and pushing me away as I carry her up the stairs.  It has been like this for a few weeks now and seemed to start as the amount of night sleep she was getting increased.  At first I was thinking that her nap time may need to be later but now I’m not so sure as when she does go down well she may not appear very tired before I take her up the stairs but as soon as she is in her cot she does fall asleep very quickly. Her EASY has still been this:

WU: 6 – 6:30 (usually around 6:30).
S: 12 pm (nap length can vary between an hour and a half to 2 and a half hours).
BT 7 pm

I’m going to start the sleep training again tonight and settle her in her cot for any night wakes also.  I feel it is the right time to start now.  I have noticed that she has a canine starting to cut her gum but I can only see the tiniest piece of a tooth right now and it doesn’t seem to be affecting her night sleep, so I’ll give her meds before bedtime. I’m really hoping that we can just get a spell of her teeth not troubling her so we can get back on track with her going to bed independently again.  I’m not sure how much of an problem this canine will be though!

I’m going to keep a log of how her EASY from now on as she is still not sleeping through the entire night on her own.  There always seems to be a wake at some point in the night. 

On a side note, I’m wanting to start to give her milk in a sippy cup at night now instead of a bottle.  Do you think it is an appropriate age to do this, she is 17 and a half months?  My only concern is although she isn’t dependent on the bottle to fall asleep, it does relax and comfort her so I am aware that she may find it difficult to suddenly not have the milk in a cup instead of a bottle.  Is this something you think I could do after she is sleeping independently again. I’m just thinking it may be best to tackle one thing at a time?

Thanks again!


Offline *Becky*

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Great to hear things have improved :)
Her routine looks good to me so I would just stick with it for a little while unless you hit major nap issues.
As for the sippy, she is def at the age for getting rid of the bottle. I would do it as and when you feel comfortable so maybe focus on the ST first and then focus on that. xx




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Offline Hayleys

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Thanks!

So, I’ve started the sleep training and actually it has gone well.  It has been 3 nights now and she hasn’t been distressed like before, so I’m pleased with the progress we have been making. I think it has shown me that it just wasn’t the right time when I tried before and her molar tooth must have been troubling her much more than I thought.  There has been such a difference in her night sleep now that her molars are through!  She also has been going down fine for her nap at 12 pm so I will stick to that for now as you’ve suggested.  The only thing is that she has a temperature this morning so I don’t think I’ll be able to continue with the sleep training tonight but will continue when she is better. 

I’m feeling much better about things and it’s good to see that she can settle back to sleeping independently, despite her not doing it at bedtime for possibly a few months.  I am still sitting by the cot, but plan to move out of the room when the time is right.  I’ve always been able to do this before so just hope for the same to happen again.

If she is well at the weekend I think I’ll try to give her the night milk in a sippy cup instead of a bottle.  Is it a question of just offering it to her in the cup?  I’m thinking that she will probably not take as much milk and may get upset.  Just wondering if you have had any experience with this and how it went?  I’m aware that she does have a canine cutting the gum now and I’m hoping that this doesn’t affect the progress we have been making too much but I’ll just have to wait and see.  The fact that she has a temperature may be tooth related  but she has never had a temperature whilst teething before.

Offline *Becky*

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glad to hear about the sleep improving :)

Re the cup, I just switched at 15 months with DD and offered it in her cup rather than bottle. She was not that keen but we stuck with it and after about a week she was absolutely fine. I would not worry if she does not take much for a day or two and if she is upset then again, give it a couple of days and see. Good luck x




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Offline Hayleys

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Hi

Just to recap as it has been a while since I last posted. My little girl is nearly 19 months now.  Once her molars came through followed quickly by 1 canine she has been so much better sleeping at night (I don’t want to speak too soon but we have not have a long night wake for a good few weeks now)!  I think when she does this it is a real sign that she is teething as once her teeth were through then she has generally managed to start sleeping through the night.  She has been an independent sleeper since around 6 months.  Nap time has always gone well.  I have been consistent at putting her down while she is awake/teething or ill  and I can usually leave the room without any issues. Her EASY currently is:

WU 6-6:30
S: 12 pm (usually between 1 and a half  to 2 hrs) I have been capping at 2 hrs.
BT 7pm

However, bedtime has always been a trickier, this has mainly been due to her falling asleep on the bottle in the past  and me not putting her down when she is awake.  There was a time around 4 months ago when I was able to stop her falling asleep on the bottle and start sleep training her to fall independently at night time.  This went well and for a few weeks she was going down fine but sometimes I would have to go back into the room, it wasn’t a big deal (but not as successful as nap time).  I felt we were making good progress though but then since September she has had cold after cold and really struggled with those teeth which have come through.  It has really hindered the bedtime sleep training and I have done a lot of AP (ing) her to sleep at bedtime just to get through either illness or teething.  What I have been doing is actually putting her in the push chair and rocking her to sleep.  This really helped when she was teething and soothed her but of course I want to get out of this bad habit now but I’m having difficulty and I’m not sure what is going on.

Last week I started the sleep training again.  I put her down she cried and I sat by the cot and said her sleepy phrase.  She settled after about 40 mins and she didn’t get extremely distressed – a great start to day one, I thought!  The next night the same thing happened with perhaps less crying.  However on night 3 although she settled quickly and was lying down trying to fall asleep she just could not sleep.  This went on for an hour and a 45 mins.  She was mainly laying down, not crying but just rolling around trying to settle.  I was still in the room by the cot at this point but I had been on the previous nights and she had fallen asleep without a problem.  My plan was to start moving out of the room over the next few days which I have done in the past and it has always been successful.  So as an hour and a 45 mins had past I was getting anxious about her becoming OT and I ended up taking her out of the cot and AP (ing) her to sleep.  I then tried the sleep training again the next night and again this happened, after an hour and a half she could not fall asleep and she started to bang her head on the wooden cot.  She wasn’t crying but I was worried that she would hurt herself so again I AP (ed) her to sleep.  I haven’t tried the sleep training since as I have felt so perplexed as to what is going on.  When we were struggling so much over Christmas with her teething, she did sometimes take an hour or more to fall asleep in the push chair and I put this down to her teething.  Right now she is happy and settled in the day and is generally sleeping well at night and I can’t see any obvious teething signs.  She won’t let me look in her mouth though so her gum may be swollen but I’m unsure.  I am certain that she will get those 3 canines soon  though so teeth could be in the mix.

The other thing is last week, I had problems putting her down at nap time (again this sometimes was happening when she was teething around Christmas).  Although it was worse this time as before she was crying but would settle around 20 mins while I sat by her cot but this time, like bedtime, she just could not fall asleep. It got to 1 pm and I was so worried about her not getting a nap, I took her out for a drive to fall asleep.  The strange thing is, my sister has her 2 days a week when I am at work.  She has never had a problem putting her down for a nap and even last week after I had these problems she settled fine for her.  Over the weekend my husband put her down and again she settled fine for her nap.  I will try myself tomorrow but it does seem that she is less likely to sleep for me.  In the last month or so she has started to walk everywhere and I have noticed that she has been more mumsy than before so I don’t know if SA is playing a part in this but surely it wouldn’t stop her from falling asleep?  I would have thought that teething may though?  Also I do really want to continue with the sleep training but what do I do if so much time has passed and she still isn’t asleep?  Also I’m worried if she starts head banging then she will hurt herself. 

Any ideas?           

Offline *Becky*

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it does sound like teeth to me - have you tried meds at all?




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Offline Hayleys

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Hi Becky

Thank you.  You were right, she is definitely teething!  The long night wakes are back! I was able to look in her mouth and it seems as if two canines are beginning to cut the gum.

We do give her meds, and she is back on the calpol now.  I’m not sure if it completely takes the pain and discomfort away to be honest.  I’m going to try to start to give it to her when she wakes during the night as well, usually we just give it to her before she goes to bed.  I’m hoping it may help her to get back to sleep quicker as she can be awake for hours! 

I don’t think it is the right time to start sleep training again at the moment. I don’t feel comfortable doing it when I know she has canines cutting.  I’d prefer to wait until I can see that her gums are not sore and the point of the teeth are through.  Of course there is a part of me that is panicking a bit as I’m thinking about how much time has past since she last went to sleep independently at bed time though.  It just seem that when she is teething she can’t fall asleep on her own, or at least not when I put her down (she is still going down fine for my sister at nap time and at the weekend I’m going to get my husband to try to put her down for her nap as that was fine last weekend).  Do you think it’s ok just to wait for a while until starting the sleep training again though?

I’ve been able to stop the bed time bottle now and she has her milk in a cup so that is great and in future should prevent her from falling asleep before I put her in her cot.

Also, I’ve been contemplating about giving her a lovely as she doesn’t have anything to go to bed with.  In the past there were a few occasions when I gave a teddy bear just before she went down for her nap and she was fine with it and still went to sleep independently.  At what point should I do that?  Currently I am AP(ing) her to sleep so I could start to give her something and then just continue with it at the start of the sleep training, do you think this could hinder the sleep training though? I’m just worried that if I give her a teddy or something then it may make her stay awake for longer as she is not used to it or she may wake early in the morning and again start playing with it instead of getting herself back to sleep.

What do you think?

Offline *Becky*

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mine started off with a muslin as a lovey so not exciting at all, I am such a huge fan of a lovey. I would def give her something.

Re the ST and teeth, I think you should do what feels right to you otherwise you will find it hard to be consistent. If you want to AP a but now then do.

Also, just a tip but nurofen worked much better for teeth with my two than calpol. x




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Offline Hayleys

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Thanks Becky

My little girl will be 20 months next week now.  It's been a while since I responded as we've in quite a teething mess and I've just chosen to ride out the long night wakes we've been having and AP her to sleep until her canines are through.  I'm planning to hopefully get back on track afterward they are through.  She is still going down fine for her naps but it is just bedtime which we have been struggling with and any night wakes.

The night wakes have not been that bad for the last week and I can see that the last of her two canines are on the way down (still very early stages though), but I don't think it is causing her too much distress at the moment, although it's hard to tell.

I just wanted to run my EASY by you as over the last few days she has been nearly sleeping through the night but waking early, at around 4:30 or 5 am (although going back to sleep an hour later for an additional an hour of sleep).  Teeth could be playing a part in this early wake but our EASY has been the same for months and months now and I'm actually wondering if her nap may need to be a bit later now.  A while back we move her nap from 11:30 - 12 pm and this seemed to eliminate the early 5 am wake up we were having at the time so I'm just wondering if we are in similar territory.  This is the EASY we have been working with:

E WU 6- 6:30
S 12 pm  (would sleep between 1 and a half to 2 hrs but I would wake her up if she was asleep after 2 hrs).
BT 7 pm

At the moment even if she does have a long wake during the night then she does seem to still be waking closer to 6 am (previously it was closer to 6:30, possibly 6:40).  The last two nights she has not had any night wakes but has had these early wakes which seem out of the blue.

Also she has been having a few 1 hr 30 min naps and they would usually be longer than this so I'm wondering if she could perhaps be a little under tired when putting her down.  I've also noticed that she has been taking a bit longer to fall asleep for her nap.  I realise it may be hard to know as she is teething and this could be a major contributing factor but I just thought I'd run her EASY by you as you may know if it is age appropriate.

Any ideas?




Offline *Becky*

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At this age I would def move the nap to 12.30pm and keep it set there..that is a really normal time for her age...




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Offline Hayleys

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Thanks Becky - I shall do that.

I'm also wondering about nap length. Right now I don't let her sleep for more than 2 hrs. Is this nap length still age appropriate. I've noticed that if she does an hour and a half nap then she seems more ready for bed at 7 pm. Her sleep needs have always been average really.

Before her canines came in and she was sleeping through the night she was doing a 1 hr min nap (waking naturally) and sleeping through the night.

Yesterday my sister was looking after her and actually put her down for her nap at 12:30 pm. She woke after 1 hr 30 mins naturally (however I'm not sure if a noise prompted the wake). She then was fine in the afternoon and went to bed very easily at 7 pm. She actually slept through the night which is rare at the moment but I did hear her stir at 11 pm and then get herself back off to sleep. Then she woke at 6:15 pm.

So the later nap may have already made a difference but just wondering about the nap length? Any ideas?

Offline Hayleys

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That meant to read that she was doing a 1 hr 45 min nap before we started having canine problems over the last month or so.

Offline *Becky*

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Both mine were doing 2 hours at 20 months and they are average and average-low sleep needs so I would say keep 2 hours if she needs it but if you notice BT resistance and/or night troubles then by all means cap at 1.5. They are all different, it can take a bit of trial and error to work out what to do sometimes. x




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Offline Hayleys

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Thank you Becky! I'll keep it as it is then and just move her nap time to 12:30 pm. Hopefully her top canines will be down in the next few weeks so I can start the sleep training at bedtime again. Not that I'm looking forward to it but I am keen to get back on track soon.

I'm sure I'll be back for your great advice and support!

x