8 month old sleep regression?

[torie2507]

DS is 8.5 months and we're really struggling with his sleep again.  His morning nap is pretty consistent at 1 - 2 hours (sometimes having to resettle at 30 mins) although for the past week he has slept for 30 mins only in the afternoon, no matter what I do.  Some days he has totally refused to nap in the afternoon and he has become harder to settle at bedtime.  I've tried moving the A time earlier and later but nothing seems to be helping.  He has also started waking at night again and most days wakes up at 3:30 wanting to get up for the day taking at least an hour to resettle.  Not sure what on earth is going on! 

The day looks roughly looks like this:

6:30 - wu
7:00 - breastfeed
8:00 - breakfast
09:30 - nap
breastfeed on wake up or on demand (normally about 4 hours) if shorter nap
12:00 - lunch
Put down in cot after 3 hours A time (have tried moving earlier and later)
Will sleep for 30 minutes only every time!
15:00 - breastfeed
16:00 - tea
17:15 - breastfeed
17:30 bed (brought forward due to short afternoon nap)
03:00 - wakeup for at least an hour, finally resettle until 06:00 - 06:30
(He also normally wakes for a feed in the night still, at random times)

Any thoughts and suggestions greatly appreciated
 

[kbecks]

Have you thought about pushing his first A? I was on over 3hrs a couple of weeks ago (my lo is only 9 months) and if she wakes at night it's generally because the first nap isn't far enough away from her wake up.

I had a bumpy period a few weeks ago but it did settle down. I moved her A by 15min which really helped and also I think her teeth where playing up also.

Hth

[LizPNI]

I wish I could help. I am have the same exact issue. My son is 8.5months and is on pretty much exact that schedule with the same exact problems.

I think it might be a sleep regression

[BusterB]

I had very similar problems with my now 8 month old and was told we had to up our A time quite dramatically, he now does 3.75/4 hours and naps are great again. When you said you tried moving the A time did you really give it a few days consistently? If you have tried both less & more A in quick succession, your LO may not quite know what's going on and you may need to give him more time to adjust (and there may be some inevitable OT too whilst he does i think - which can get confusing!)

I was advised on here that you need to try it for 3/4 days to know if it's working. Certainly in our case, the wanting to start the day in the middle of the night signals UT and I always know now that I have to push the A times when that starts happening.

[Kellyjs]

Hiya,

I think there definitely is a sleep regression of some sorts. Either that or wonder week, developmental or teeth! Who knows?! I had massive issues too... Had loads of help on the easy board (entitled 8mo EASY routine).

Basically, if you don't want to read it all, the advice I received was to bump up DD's A quite significantly. I used to have a wu of 6.30am then nap at 9.30am but now nap time isn't until around 11am!! (My LO is a bit older than yours at 9.75mo). But pushing out that first A really helped get a longer nap in the morning at a reasonable time, then when she does have 30mins in the afternoon, it's not so long before BT (early if needs be) then not so OT causing the NW. If that makes sense?!

I do think something crazy happens about this time. Now her routine is ok, I know any NW are teething-related!!

Also, definitely agree with busterb... I didn't hold the A time and messed about with it too much, poor little love didn't know whether she was coming or going!

Hth xx

[torie2507]

Thanks for replying everyone. I've spent the past week trying to extend his A time but things have gone even more haywire! He's started sleeping in my bed every night as I'm so tired I can't deal with the night wakings and early mornings.  I know its not a great idea but this exhaustion is like torture. 

Not sure where I'm going wrong....  If I put him to bed when he shows his sleepy signs at 3 hours A time he goes to sleep fine on his own but he was only sleeping for 30 minutes so I've been doing wake to sleep, this is generally getting me 1 hour 15 minutes now but to get this I have to stir him every 20 minutes.  I tried extending his morning A time by 15 minutes, he went into melt down and refused to nap so I had to resort in taking him for a drive or in the buggy just to get him to sleep.  So I thought, maybe I've jumped too much and went down to 10 minutes extended A time, but the same thing happens.

I really don't know what to do any more these sleeping issues are now really affecting the whole of our family    He's got no routine at all as his wake up time is never consistent and every nap or bedtime is a battle he never sleeps at the same time.

Any further guidance anyone can offer I'd be soooooo thankful for  xx

PS - sorry for the moan and whine

[torie2507]

Thought I'd post the rough timings of what has been happening to see if it brings any light for anyone.

yesterday:

5:45 - wu
6:30 - feed
7:30 - breakfast
8:50 - showed tired signs, carried him around keeping him quiet
9:00 - into cot - screaming
9:30 - fell asleep (wake to sleep at 9:50 to prevent 30 minute wake up)
10:15 - awake (45 minute sleep)
10:30 - feed
12:00 - lunch
12:45 - showed tired signs
12:50 - into cot
13:00 - asleep (feel asleep by himself without crying)
14:15 - awake (wake to sleep every 20 minutes to prevent 30 minute wake up)
14:30 - feed
16:15 - tea
17:30 - feed and into bed (fell asleep whilst feeding, stirred when put in cot but didnt cry)
20:30 - awake, crying, wouldn't self soothe so went in and put hand on chest, back to sleep within a couple of mins
01:00 - awake - feed
04:00 - awake - WIDE awake - nothing I did got him back to sleep
07:00 - feed - feel asleep
07:10 - put in cot asleep (stirred but didnt wake)

Thursday:
05:30 - wu
06:30 - Feed
07:30 - breakfast
08:35 - showed tired signs, carried around quietly
08:45 - into cot - screaming
09:30 - took out of cot, he was hysterical! Went for a drive
10:15 - asleep (in car)
11:30 - awake and feed
12:30 - lunch
14:30 - asleep (in car on way back from a play date)
15:30 - awake and feed
17:00 - tea
18:00 to 18:15 - feed and into cot (went in quietly, chatting to himself but then started screaming)
19:30 - finally settled to sleep
21:00 - awake, wouldnt self settle, hand on chest put him back to sleep after a few mins
21:30 - awake, wouldn't self settle, I couldn't settle
22:00 - into bed with me
02:00 - feed, wide awake.  Played happily in my bed
03:30 - asleep
06:15 - awake

He's just woken up after 30 minutes.... This is crazy.  I wish I knew why he won't sleep!

[kbecks]

Hugs torie xxx

I know exactly how you feel when it all seems to be going wrong but it will get better and to save sanity try and just focus on one thing and hopefully it'll help the whole day.

When I put my LO down for a sleep, if she screams its because she isn't ready to go to sleep. If it is way before she should be going to sleep it becomes a major battle and can take anything up to 2hrs to go down. To make sure this doesn't happen I watch the clock and basically ignore her sleepy signs. She can show tiredness anything from 45 min before her 'sleep' time but I just ignore it and change what we are doing or look out the window with her to keep her going.

Her A time had been quite static for a good month (she's now 9.5mths) and she does 3.5hrs at least each A time. If I did less than that for her morning A I get a night waking which I'm seeing now as I've just gone back to work and her schedule is being effected by nursery and grandparents

Try pushing the A in the day first and just get through the nights best you can, you can fix this second. Make sure the A time before bed is long enough to ensure sleep straight away. My Lo has done 5hr A because of nursery this week before bed andsurprisingly been ok just passed out at bedtime (not advisable but shows it does happen and the world doesn't come to an end!;) )

Good luck xxxx

[torie2507]

Thanks for your reply kbecks.
So you think he may be UT when going down?  I'll stick with the 3 hours 15 mins A time before first nap for the next few days and see how we get on. 
I've just put him down for another nap, I left 2 hours 30 mins A time following a 30 minute nap early this morning, he went in his cot and fell asleep on his own after chatting for 15 ish minutes so I know he can still self soothe at least sometimes! 

Do you not think it could be over tired that's causing him to melt down before extending naps? 

I'll stick with it and have everything crossed for peace being restored soon (ideally before we go on hols next Sunday!)

[kbecks]

Inmy experience he may be UT which is causing the drama as it may be that he's gone down fine for naps becausethat's what you've always done and hasn't shown UT in the day but is showing it through the night which I find much worse!!      Nowyou are trying to change it he is starting to protest as he's a bit unsure of whatis going on . The key is to try and keep going and that is the only way you'll know if it is working is by persisting. He's old enough to take the A time.

I have struggled the whole time with short naps and only when I extended the morning A did I see her transitioning through with no intervention and a reduction of NW.   It drove me mad trying to figure out how to get longer naps and there were many tears...I suspect more on my part!!!

The most infuriating thing is that every baby is different and from all the reading I've done you can't apply everything necessarily exactly the same but use it as a guide. You'll get there. Everything for me has only settled down within the last month and now I've got teething and nursery changing things up but I know we can get back as she has shown she can do it!

Good luck and keep us updated!! Xxx

[torie2507]

Thanks again kbecks.  I'll stick with extending A time, what you say makes perfect sense. x

[BusterB]

Wanted to send you some *hugs* too and ask how you are getting on?  I really do understand how you feel right now and I want to tell you that there is light at the end of the tunnel but it might get worse before it gets better i'm afraid

.... To make sure this doesn't happen I watch the clock and basically ignore her sleepy signs. She can show tiredness anything from 45 min before her 'sleep' time but I just ignore it and change what we are doing or look out the window with her to keep her going.

I want to echo what kbecks has said - I think her advice is spot on and we do exactly the same thing. This morning my LO was up at 5:45 and started yawning like crazy, rubbing his eyes & grizzling at 7:30.... i had to ignore all this and worked hard at distracting him until we got to as close to 10am as I thought I could push it. He eventually went down at 9:50am without a whimper.... was the same yesterday and he napped for 1hr20 until I eventually had to wake him to preserve our routine.

Make sure the A time before bed is long enough to ensure sleep straight away.

This has been absolutely vital for us... sometimes it does push him into OT, but he is so much easier to resettle OT than UT that I would rather risk it by ensuring this A is a decent length. When I get it right we get nice long stretches at night and even STTN on some occasions. He is EW at the moment after getting a nasty virus last week, so I know I need to tweak things a bit, but at least he is sleeping at least 6 hour stretches - so with an early bedtime for me I am getting some sleep.

When we first started pushing him there was a lot of OT, which is where you are at the moment, but I stuck with it on the advice of people here and I am so glad that we did. I really hope things are improving for you

[torie2507]

Hi,
Tanks so much for your support, advice and encouragement, its greatly received.

We've been at 3 hours 15 A time after wake up for the past 4 days, he only slept foe 38 minutes each time so I did an early bed time and he slept until 3am, when I fed him and he went straight back to sleep until 5:30am.  That's a massive improvement for us!  He just awoke from 1 hour 10 min first nap following 3 hours 25 mins A time.  I plant to increase again to 3 hours 30 mins A time to see if we can get longer naps.  Do you think that's best?

Thanks again

[BusterB]

I am so glad to hear things are moving in the right direction!! A 1hr 10 min naps sounds like a big improvement, was it easier/harder to actually get him to sleep?

You can either hold the 3hr 25 for a couple of days and see if naps consistently improve or try for the 3hr 30 as this is only a little bit more and shouldn't cause too many issues. If it tips him back to 30m OT naps then pull it back a fraction.

What A times are you doing for the rest of the day?

[torie2507]

He went down easier but not totally independently as he fell asleep with my hand on his backBut he fell asleep quickly, which is all a big improvement.

He currently has 2 hours 45 mins A time (because of 30 min naps) after first nap, which id like to increase. Then I've been putting him to bed at 530 as naps have been so short this can be anything from 2.5 to 3 hours A time after 2nd nap. Id also like to increase this in the hope of getting a later bedtime consistently

should i wait until 1st nap is established ok before pushing the 2nd nap later?