7 month twins, night waking and early morning waking.

[annamomof3]

Hello Moms of multiples! I too feel for you, I have b/g 7 mnth old B/G twins and its been nothing but all of the above. However I have noticed my son stick to a 4 Hour EASY and luckily for me he has been sleeping thru the nights since 6 mnths, my girl on the other hand is a mess! Early wakes, barely naps, wakes every night at 2-3 am and takes an ounce to 5 oz per feed every few hours. Anyone have any tips? HERE Is our EASY or NOT EASY whichever seems more appropriate. I am so stressed out I feel like I have tried every tip out there from decreasing solids, to faster nipples, to more activity, earlier solid feeds, earlier bed time I dont think there is anything left! I even asked her pediatrician if there was something wrong she says no.

E 3AM 2 oz
S 3-630AM
A 630AM - 7A activity
E 7AM 2-3.5 oz
E 830AM breakfast 2 TBSP fruit
S 9-1145
E/A1145 3 oz restless
E/A 1225 1oz restless
E/A 230 2oz restless
(I let baby roll in her crib / sooth her by sitting with her nothing works)
S 3-430
E430 3-5oz (depends on the day)
S 445-630PM 
E 7PM - (I try to offer bottle first but she refuses)  2 TBSP veggies / cereal
A (BATH) 730-830
E 9PM 3.5  - 5 oz (depends of the day)
S 915PM
E I was giving her a DF at 1030 but she stopped taking it a month ago,

[Uglybethy]

Hello Anna
I've only just found your post I am sorry for the delay in replying because of this.
What a muddle this little girls seems to be in! And how infuriating for you that your little boy is sleeping all night but little girls seems way off.
I've got a few initial thoughts, some of which you might find useful but it would also be useful for me to see your little boy's EASY routine to see how this compares. And a few other questions for you...are they synchronized? Are they similar sizes? Were they born to term? Do you use any props for sleeping eg pacifier? Do you have any help at all?
Let me know when you can then I can have a good think as to how we can help you out!
In the mean time, sending you hugs and strength to keep going... Hang in there!

[babybarr]

Will be back in the morning to help!

[4isstillnighttime]

Hi anna!

I am rubbish at formula as have only just started using it, but what I found v helpful was to think of what my ideal EASY would be and then work towards that. Are you happy with your little boy's routine?

[annamomof3]

Hello ladies I'm still at my wits end with my dear A. She is still waking 245 every morning for about an ounce or so of formula weeks for the day at 6 AM and barely eats 2 ounces. I've tried the fastest tea it doesn't work I don't know what else to do. Darling L my boy is pretty much on a 4 to 5 hour easy. I love the schedule and he seems happy on it . everyone can sleep ! Zzzz.....but if a is around she wakes him up so I have to put her in my swing next to my bed and that is the only way she goes back down. So two things I'm desperate to eliminate the swing is a prop problem and her evening wake. There has been nights were she slept through but it was almost as if I was force-feeding her cluster feeds and had to give her a few teaspoons of food after she finished her dinner . I just felt like I was shoveling food and formula into her mouth but she did sleep through the night . she is a much smaller twin. She always was the smaller one , she was 5 pounds at birth full term 39 weeks. I delivered naturally. She came first and he came an hour later . today at seven months she's only about 13 a half pounds so her intake is sufficient according to her pediatrician but she definitely is missing a bottle because when she takes it she sleeps I just don't know what else to do help

[annamomof3]

Also with respect to help I really don't have any during the day I'm tending to my active three-year-old and the twins so I do have to prop them to feed them bottles unfortunately but I love my job and I'm doing the best I can I guess! Just desperate to eliminate the swinging at night and her feed at 2:45 AM!

[Sarah - Enfys' Mum]

Hi, I think one of your problems is her day is very long  - 6:30 am to 9 pm.  She's also having three full length day time naps there. If I were you, I'd try to cut that third nap right back to a short cat nap of 20-30 mins max with the idea of dropping it for good in the next couple of weeks. What do you think?

[4isstillnighttime]

I agree with Sarah - we try for a 13 h day if good naps and a 12 h day if bad. From their ideal wake up. So if you want her up at 6 aim for bed at 7. And mine were def on 2 long naps and a catnap by 7 months. Catnap usually in the pushchair or car then they woke up by themselves when we stopped pushing.2

Also (and I'm not sure how BW this is!!) my 2 eat a phenomenal amout and have gone from being at the 0.4th centil at birth to the 50th and are still climbing. I think being twins they can't reach their full potential when they are inside you!! So she may still need loads of milk but struggle with big feeds. Also be careful of replacing milk with solid food too soon as solids fill them up but have much fewer calories than milk so it can make them hungrier. I know this to my cost after starting solids early!

[Uglybethy]

Can I just says what an amazing job you're doing given that you've got a three year old running around the place as well!

I think you've summarized the issues that need to change really well and I agree also that the 2.30 am feed is a problem, along with the swinging to sleep. My sense is that the 2.30 feed could be resolved by adding to her daytime formula intake and that if this doesn't resolve it then it's a habit and there are other strategies that will help you break that.

The swinging to sleep is a prop issue that if you're ready to wean then you use a technique called 'pick up put down' to do this. Do you have the baby whisperer books (the secrets of a baby whisper and the baby whisperer solves all your problems)? They explain the technique in detail. You mentioned that you have no help during the day... Is someone there with you at night to help at all? Also do you eventually want them to share a room or will they be in separate rooms?

So when little girls starts the day at 6am is that when you all start the day? Are you aiming for a 6am - 6pm day? In aiming for a four hour easy I'm guessing your looking for something like this (four hour easy is two up two down isn't it?! Just checking in with other posters on this!)

E 06.00 formula
A 06.30-08.00 includes playing and solids
S 08.00-10.00
E 10.00 formula
A 10.30-12.00 includes playing and solids
S 12.00-14.00
E 14.00 formula
A 14.30-16.00
S 16.00-16.30 cat nap
E 16.30 solids
A bath bottle (formula) book and bed (or what ever your bed time routine is)
S 18.00 down for the night
Could do cluster feed or dream feed option before 23.00 if her intake has been low during the day.

In looking at the easy you posted she's having six hours of day time sleep which amazing but it is a lot to then expect her to sleep twelve hours at night. A good place to start might be to bring her first nap earlier (two hours after waking for the day) and cap it at two hours....

And I agree with previous posts about reducing the third nap massively to a cat nap of 20-30 mins...

[annamomof3]

Hi again - takes me a few days sometimes to get back on respond and reply! However THANK YOU for the credit - no- its me 24 hours a day 4 days per week - 3 nights i have limited help but never anything more than a diaper change or a bath or two =)

Since I have identified the night waking and the swing prop to be my main issues I have made the following changes and see a slight difference. A now has this vibration device so although it's still a "prop" it is helping! It looks like a racket and slips under her cribs mattress. IT vibrates the entire mattress and shuts of after 15 minutes. She has napped successfully there x4 naps so I am hopeful she will sleep through the night. The ultimate issue is when she wakes she wakes L and when he wakes my N wakes (Arianna, LJ and Nick)then the whole night is a wash! Next I have significantly decreased her breakfast and dinner intake and notices she ate 1-2 ounces more for the day, tonight I will push the dinner to 5pm and try a bed-bath routine to get them both down by 7PM. A is full of energy though allday. Could she be overtired? I mean she literally has to take on a tummy time of 30 minute or a bouncing time or just being held and rocked until she passes out. I feel doubtful but I know everything needs to be tried until I knock it!

On another hand my L no matter his fluctuation in ounces of formula or times of solids - he sleeps so no issues however today he has significantly cut back his formula intake (UGH!) and his first nap on the 4 hour easy was a cat nap of maybe 40 minutes SO far this was the end of L's EASY yesterday and today
E 7PM dinner
A 8PM bath
E 830 6oz
S 845P-6AM
A 6am
E 615,  7oz
A630-730
E 730 breakfast
S 830-915
E945 3oz!!!???
S10....not awake yet?
So do you suggest I do this new "earlier" to bed routine for both twins? They both wake at 6am so from what I read you say the max awake time should leave them with a 12-14 hours night?

I will also try to cut the naps she takes to cat naps  - I think this is key - thank you!

Lastly to reply - I do intend on them sharing a room but I can't until she sleeps through or she wakes her brother L. Ultimately A will have her own little room and L will bunk with N once I feel I can! I don't trust my N just yet - not sure when I Will!

[babybarr]

Come one and all to this thread for some general chatting

Sleep and EASY support for twins and multiples

(((hugs))) and sounds like you have a plan.  I had a rocking device for my two for a long while...

[Uglybethy]

Hi Anna just quickly as I've only got a few minutes now do not cut all the naps to cat naps... Only the last nap of the day. The first two naps need to be two hours long each ok

[Uglybethy]

Hi Anna I'm back again... Hope your day panned out well enough.

Congrats for getting A to nap in her crib. The vibration can be weaned if and when you are ready

Just to reiterate about the napping advice... You should still aim for two restorative naps of two hours and then an optional third nap which should just be a cat nap (20-30mins long). This will optimize your chance of helping her sleep through the night by avoiding her becoming overtired.

In looking at the easy routines you've posted for both little ones it strikes me that you are doing an amazing job of responding to both babies as soon as they need it. So, as soon as they wake they are fed, then have activity time and then put down to sleep as soon as you see what might be sleep cues, then when they wake you feed agin etc etc. This is the best way to start them off on the easy routine for sure and well done for keeping this up for so long but for your sanities sake (as well as the babies needs) I'm wondering if a better balance could be struck between rushing to attend to their needs immediately vs say knowing what is best for them and pushing them a little bit towards that. The example I can think of would be if a baby wakes 40 minutes into a nap and you know that a truly restorative nap is 1.5-2hrs long then rather than get them up then and feed you would work on resettling them back into sleep. That way they will wake up well rested and take a good feed on waking, rather than a pidly 2-3 oz which won't see them through the next nap. I hope that makes sense? So with L today, when he woke from that first nap at 9.45 I'd have resettled him back to sleep until 10.30 before feeding him.

Let's keep going with this tweaking... Like you say it's one step at a time.

Keep us posted as to how your night went. Also, please join us if you'd like on the twins and multiples thread (Laura posted a link above)!

[4isstillnighttime]

I have a lot of admiration for you coping with twins and a toddler on your own - I struggle just with my two!!

[annamomof3]

Another rough night with A last night, woke at 2:30 am even after I cut her last nap to a cat nap of 30 minutes. However her two restorative naps were not 2 hours we had a dentist errand and it messed things up. I realize now that these tweaks in routines require a lot of attention in the home! Fortunately we have the luxury to be home more now until N starts nursery school in Sept so I have to do all the work now. A, also did not eat much formula yesterday or solids maybe 4 TBSP total and 21 ounces for the day - I also notice shes chewing on her fingers, pacifier toys anything terribly I think shes badly teething. I placed both twins @ 7PM in their cribs A, with her vibration device which helped. she slept there until her wake at 230am. Ofcorse L, slept beautifully! When she woke I tried to soothe her with a pacifier and belly rubs but she continued and I was not going to allow her to wake L. I took her to her Swing and she continued, I tried water, pacifier for almost 1 hour until my hubby woke (who is overtired working two jobs). This caused me to give-in and I knew she wanted to eat - with 1 ounce of formula she settled back down after 15 more minutes until 6AM. A, woke and again drank a measly 3.5  ounces. L, woke shortly after and drank is usual 6.5-7oz morning bottle. Come summer I will have my hubby home Fulltime since he's off so I have to truck through these dreadful nights until he and I can alternate soothing techniques at 230am and probably have to let her cry it out. I have to mention she did sleep through the night at 4 month's but then she was in-taking almost 5 ounces at a feed. I don;t know what changed! I am so exhausted I feel like my auto pilot is starting to go  - I'm becoming forgetful everyday but I know this has to end sooner or later...just wish I had a magic wand. Thanks Lily raising all 3 is way tougher than working at my old job! I miss work some days but others I realize that this is "sweet" work and I am the best cut out for the job and wouldn't change things for the world. Both twins are down for their first restorative....A, refused her crib and I couldn't sit with her as my 3 y/o son decided to drink bubbles this morning. So A, in her swing, L, in his crib - lets hope for a full restorative.....Hope everyone day goes smoothly and we all can get some rest! It's a happy 73 degree's YAY!  Should I be posting in the other thread that Barr posted? I feel as if we are in our own discussion but if you want to switch I will, let me know. I will take all the advice and support I can get these days!
~Anna