8mth old waking 6-7 times anight

[geordiemummy]

HI Siobhan,

I'm turning him on his side as I'm sure I read in the book it was easier to do ssh pat this way? But also as he immediately goes to turn on his side in the night when I go to settle him, he also sleeps on his side so presumed this was the right thing to do? Yes he has a bottle every 4hrs during the day he has 7 oz. And I give him food 1-1.30 hrs after bottle.

I understand you are at work so will speak later thank you and yes I am willing to drop all props xx

[Florena49]

Im afraid im on my phone too, as we are away. In terms of shush pat there is no reason you wouldnt do something that suits u, for example just rub back and shush or just hold ur hand on him and shush or pat his bum.

[geordiemummy]

Hi all, last night was awful. He had me up about 10 times, not with pain but found it difficult to 're settle him without taking him out of cot. I was going to re-read the book last night to refresh things in my mind so I could get started on implementing changes, however Ralph had other ideas and didn't get the chance. Could you help me with where to start? Shall I try ssh pat again? Will it not be too overwhelming for him to do so many changes I.e no paci, no hand holding, no sleeping in pram anymore etc or is that the best way?

HELP? Feeling confused xx

[Florena49]

Hi Ema

Im sorry things are difficult. Are you sure theres no discomfort? 10times is a lot to wake.

I think you have a few options, but it depends on what you are comfortable with.

You can drop all the props and just go for it with shush pat. There will be a lot of crying because Ralph doesn't know how to fall asleep himself and it will be a change for him.

You can drop the props and keep the paci for example and teach him to replug it. I think whatever way he will cry and you need to be ready to be there to comfort him.

I cant promise you he will sleep through the night, but it will be much easier to get Ralph to sleep.

[geordiemummy]

Hi thanks Viktoria,

There is definitely no discomfort he's always been like this. I've just let it continue in the hope that once he was weaned things would be better.
I do try and put the dummy in his hand to replug but he misses and just puts the plastic edge in and then gets frustrated and flings it about. I think I will try ssh pat again and see what happens over the next week.

What do I do about the feeds in the night? Shall I cut back to 2?

Ema x

[Florena49]

Yes i would leave just 2, so for example it has been 4 hours since the last feed and he wakes u dont try to shush pat just feed him and back into cot, all other wakings u resettle with shush pat until the next feed is due. It will be difficult its a huge change for him, but hang in there!

[geordiemummy]

Okay thank you for advice. Will start in the morning tomorrow as Ralph was up at 5.00 this morning and has knocked his routine out today already as he had a cat nap at 7.30 am.

I'm totally ready for this now and I know it will be hard, I've bought some ear plugs to help.

Will keep u posted x

[Skadiver13]

here is definitely no discomfort he's always been like this.

Hi hun this makes me think it could be discomfort? Have you had a pediatrician look for signs of reflux etc?

Read a few of the links regarding shush/pat or Pu/pd which ever you are more comfortable with. Yes there will be crying but the goal is to get him eventually to be able to settle with out you in the room.

[geordiemummy]

I have took him to the docs following suggestions on here before as he used to scream and throw himself about whenever he was tired. Tried gaviscon which didn't make a difference and eventually he now no longer screams, I think he was extremely OT. Now that he doesn't cat nap he doesn't scream anymore he just cries when he's tired. He really fights it and always has done. With his night awakenings he has a shouting cry if that makes sense which if I don't see to him or pick him up then it turns into proper crying and upset.
If he was in pain I would know as he has a very distinctive high l pitched scream especially when he's teething.

X

[Skadiver13]

Ok well that's great that you can tell the differences in his cries that is always so helpful.  So yes it seems you are a prop for him so Sleep training so he can resettle with out you I think is the right way to go. Is there anyone else who can help you as it can be very tiring and daunting but well worth it when he starts to sleep through.

[geordiemummy]

Hi, thought I'd give you an update and also to ask for advice. Decided I would start with the naps first yesterday as thought doing it all at once would be quite a lot to take on for me, However the naps were a huge success  and it only took him 15 mins to settle on both occasions and slept for 1hrs 40 mins both times without waking up mid way. I couldn't believe it!!

I'm so pleased and it has worked again this morning when I refused to get up at 5.00 so got him back to sleep at 5.30 and he slept until 6.50. However when I'm settling him I tried the ssh pat but he keeps pushing my hand away so I can t pat him, he is still quite adamant that he wants to hold my hand and mess with it, waving it about etc and pulling it towards him until he's drowsy when I pull it away although sometimes he immediately turns on his back and checks I'm still there and grabs it again.

The advice I'm looking for is how to tackle the issue of me or my hand being the prop during the night as he's waking practically every hour to hour an a half and more frequently early on. He holds it for around 5 mins but it's exhausting and I am not relaxing in the evenings as I'm up and down the stairs all the time.I thought maybe just putting my hand on his back or chest might work but he just grabs it and he's strong so don't want to start a tug of war with him. I've tried replacing my hand with a little snuggle item but to no avail, do I keep trying? How do I get around this? Any ideas?

Thanks Ema xx

I've decided that since the naps weren't as bad as first thought then I will tackle the night time wakenings.

[Skadiver13]

Hi hun, yes hand holding can definetely be a prop. Which ST method have you chosen to do at nap time? Given he is 8 months old PU/PD may be too stimulating for him? And Shush pat can irritate children after 6 months. So my suggestion is since he still wants you touching him is to try gradual withdrawl?

 Gradual Withdrawal Method

The key to Gradual Withdrawal is to take tiny steps and make the changes very small at first so the child barely notices them.  Create a plan, broken into small steps of how you will reduce the parental dependence and work towards independence.  For example, patting on the back becomes lighter and lighter until the hand barely brushes the child's back, but is poised just above it.

To implement, follow your bedtime routine being certain that your child has sufficiently wound down from the day.  When wind down is completed, lay your child down, tuck them in and use a phrase they can associate with it's sleep time such as "time to go night-night you can find your blankie/pacifier/suck your thumb/etc. to help you fall asleep." Settle your child in their crib/bed and comfort as you normally would, then implement the first step in your plan.  Depending upon your child's temperament, you may be able to tackle more in less nights, or need to do less over the course of more nights.

The Gradual Withdrawal Method is intended for children that are reliant upon a parent's presence to calm them and help them settle for sleep. Examples are: sitting in the room, holding a child's hand, laying down with a child, patting to sleep, among others.  The idea is to simply reduce the reliance on parental presence gradually and in very small increments so the child continues to settle well and gains confidence in their ability to fall asleep independently.  The parent is there to assist the child in sleeping, but slowly reduces the dependence.  Examples might be: moving a chair closer and closer to the door until out of the room over the course of a few weeks, moving out a child's bed to an air mattress on the floor, then slowly move farther and farther towards the door over time, reducing the length of time patting though still staying with the child - then slowly working closer and closer towards the door.

What do you think?

[geordiemummy]

I was thinking along the same lines but didn't know how to implement it. Do I just gradually reduce the time spent holding his hand/being there? When I let go of his hand do I go out of the room and come back if he cries and start again?

How do we get to the point where he no longer wants the hand at all? Do I not let him and just say the sleepy phrase and leave the room?

So many questions again, I'm really sorry xx

[Skadiver13]

Hi hun, what your thinking of is called WIWO (walk in walk out). This is not suggested for a little one who has never fallen asleep independently before. We used WIWO for a child who has been able to fall alseep alone before but has gone through a sleep regression or sickness etc and a parent used props to help them sleep and now need to get back on track. Check out this link it might help you understand the difference.

Walk In/Walk Out vs. The Gradual Withdrawal Method (HOW TO CHOOSE)

[geordiemummy]

Oh I see, well gradual withdrawal would be better then. Will start in a few days once this next tooth is through. Do I just gradually hold his hand less and less then? What do I do when he protests? Don't know how to apply it really to hand holding?

Thanks Ema x