Early waking

[hayley66]

Could I have some help please. We have always struggled with naps but my lo (6 months) has been good at night. He went for a few days doing 7.30-7.30, then weeks doing 7.30-7, and now we're stuck on 7.30-6. I know some people would say that's great but I have a husband in chemotherapy treatment who needs upmost sleep and the baby wakes my toddler who normally sleeps till 7.30. I just struggle with 6am wake up too! If I could just get him going to the other side of 6.30 it would be easier and he used to do it so it's kinda frustrating. Yesterday was
Wake 5.55
Put dummy in, quiet until 6.40. I never know if he's asleep or not so morning nap timing is difficult but found if we offer dummy he will happily suck ( he doesn't have dummy at any other time)
Nap put down at 9.10, sleep 40 mins, wake at 9.50
Nap put down at 12.30 sleeps 1 hour 25. (Normally this length)
Nap put down at 4.15, clearly tired, sleeps 45 min
Bed at 7.15, clearly tired.
Wakes at 6am this morn.

I don't know whether it's too much sleep, too little. I've tried so many different A times for his naps but seem to just get past the 40 minute mark this week at 2hour 40.

I just know he used to sleep 11/12 hours at night and we've gotten earlier and earlier. I just cannot extend the first nap, but at least second one we've cracked, but we're stuck on 3 naps to get through the day. Is there anything you would do to get the early waking later? Would you limit the last nap shorter or make even longer as he could be over tired and a later bedtime? I am confused! Also is putting the dummy in a problem? Could he be waking for this? I didn't think so as he's an independent sleeper...it's so hard as our toddler us high sleeps needs, 12-13 hours a night and she is getting very tired!!
Thanks so much

[Kellyjs]

The EW's are the pits aren't they? It must be doubly difficult given your husband needing the extra sleep too (hugs) x

I really think it's time for the 3-2 transition hun. EW's like that are red flags for it. Especially as that first nap is short as well. Have a read here and let me know what you think? All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months

[hayley66]

Right I give up. 5.45 this morn and wouldn't go back. Thing is his day is going to be so long now. I'm worried if his bedtime is moved much earlier he'll wake super early still as he only needs 10.5 hours sleep.

Shall I try two naps with a longer activity time but then add a 20 min cat nap rather than 45 mins?

How would you go about it?

Yesterday woke at 6, had dummy woke again at 6.20
Down at 9, slept 40 mins
Down at 12.30 slept 1.5 hours
Down at 4.45 slept 45 mins

[hayley66]

So yesterday for the first day he had one mid morning nap 45 mins then a mid afternoon nap of 2 hours. He still woke at 6am. I'm so sad :-(

[Kellyjs]

Sorry for the late reply hun. Is there any teething going on atm? That always causes EW in this house. I would expect the A time is good enough especially as it's a shorter first nap.

It may be he's had some OT building up. Is 10.5hrs now the new norm for ONS or has it mostly always been the case? X

[hayley66]

Hi no before he could sleep 11.5 hours ONS. Yesterday we tried the two naps again.  He randomly slept 1.5 hours in the morning. I then did an activity time of 3 hr 10 mins hours and he slept 40 mins, woke up, then fell asleep in the car ten mins later for another hour. Now I don't know if that A time is too long or too little. It's so difficult, everything is so erratic that I can't judge what works and what doesn't. After those two naps he woke at 5.30am this morn but went back to sleep till 7. That's not normal. I'm now putting him down at 3 hours but he's not going yet, crying and moaning. So is he undertired or overtired! This is impossible to know!

And then if he does a short nap what A time to do, or if he has a long nap what A time to do as yesterday didn't work. Arghhh!!

[Kellyjs]

Poor you hun, it is horrible isn't it? It's really hard to tell if they're UT or OT sometimes. I still have that problem too.

It may be a bit of OT for your LO considering he went back to sleep in the car. I might be tempted to keep the same A times for around a week and do w2s on both naps around the 30mins mark to help him through the transition. So the 3hrs 10mins before both naps. Wdyt? You can also look at reducing the last A before BT to 2hrs 45mins if you think he's tired from the day?

What we do know is A time of between 2hrs 40mins is too short as he's definitely doing UT naps then. After a long nap of the 1.5hrs, the A time of 3grs 10mins looks very close considering he woke then fell back to sleep 10mins later. We may find that he needs an extra 5mims there.

Also after a short nap, you did an A time of 2hrs 50 and that resulted in a longer pm nap. That looks good too.

So, in short I would keep to at least 3hrs 10mins A first thing. If that results in a short nap, do A time of 2hrs 50mins before the next nap, and look at increasing that first A the next day. Then I would look at reducing that last A slightly just to combat any OT that may have accumulated for now, to 2hrs 45mins. You can look at increasing this later on, but I just want to see if the slightly shorter days help for now. How does that sound?

[hayley66]

Right great. It so helps somebody else clarifying it! Thank you!

Well today is the best day we've had. He slept 1hr 20 this morn,  so going on the above I figured if yesterday was OT we did 3 hours and he slept 1hr 45!! I couldn't believe it.

Now let's see what happens tonight. If he didn't wake between 5 and 6am id be elated!!

I worry about putting him down too early incase he really does only need 10.5 hours sleep and will wake early anyway. He's actually had a lot if day sleep now hasn't he!

Thanks for all your help!

[hayley66]

Actually sorry the second nap was closer to 3hr 10 by the time he fell asleep, I calculated that wrong. So even though it didn't work yesterday it did today. So I just keep with that time...

[Kellyjs]

That's great news, fingers crossed it goes well tonight. A lot of the time sleep begets sleep, so the more you have the more you want! Hopefully that'll be the case with your LO. I reckon if we keep with these times for at least 3 days we'll see a good pattern emerge as to the day and night sleep. Keep me posted x

[hayley66]

Woke at 6am on the dot :-(

Say he just now only needs 10.5 hours sleep? :-(

[Kellyjs]

Oh dear, I know you're not happy with 6am, but it is far better than 5am! Big difference in my book!

Ok, it'll be hard to tell straight away until we know if he's caught up with any OT firstly. What A time to BT did you do last night? Did he settle ok or wake up in the first couple of hours?

I would continue with the A times for the next couple of days and maybe bring BT a tad earlier to see if the 6am is habitual waking or if 10.5hrs is all he needs with 2 decent naps. The risk is he may wake up a little earlier, or if he does have extra sleep and still wake up at 6am we know then it's habitual iykwim?

[hayley66]

Okay that's a good idea. I did bedtime at 7.15pm (approx 3hr 10 min activity) but he was exhausted and fell asleep on the bottle. I wanted to do him earlier but I was on my own with both of them and toddler was being awful.  He was pretty much asleep as he hit the cot, he made noise at 4am then cried out at 6am, it could have been earlier but I didn't wake till I heard him cry. I still think you could be right with a 6.45 bedtime so will try that, my instinct is a tad overtired still as he was very grumpy from 6pm. He just seems so tired by the end of the day even with these big sleeps so I can't help feeling he does need more night time sleep to balance out? Well I'm hoping that. He def is visibly tired and grump by 6pm...I do find it funny that he can have 2 45 min naps and a 1.20 nap as his old routine and still wake on a good day to a similar time as two super long sleeps. Doesn't that say habit? Ooh I get confused with all this!

Thanku so much for being so kind and helpful

[Kellyjs]

Don't worry hun, it's all a case of trial and error. My DD likes a shorter A to BT too. We do get NW's in the early part of the night though. It may be that your A time is close, so I would try the 6.45pm BT and see how it pans out. Hopefully he'll wake up closer to 6.30am rather than 6 for you. Glad the naps are better though! Some good news in there at least  x

[hayley66]

Okay I def think we have a habitual waker. He has been so so grissly past few days on two naps even though they're long. So yesterday I put him down for first nap, capped it to 40 mins, then out him down early for a late lunch time for a nap of 1hr 40 then a small cat nap at 5pm. He was so much happier, could it be some babies  just need a nap timed at lunch? He went to bed later than the night before but still woke exactly the sane time as the day before! We seem to have one if two wake up times you could set a clock by.

Is there anything u can do for habitual wakings? I think I have to accept we're not going to get later than 6am don't I :-( it is so hard as I'm just so tired being someone that has always had prob a falling asleep earlier. That extra hour makes a huge difference to me :-(