12.5 mo up all night

[Truly Blessed]

Okay Hun, so as his 3 nursery days have less daytime sleep  I think you judged BT well, especially if it was previously messy. WRT cutting the am nap I would certainly shift the 2nd nap forward to around midday so you can allow for a longer one if he sleeps on, maybe capping at 2.5. I do worry a little that it may be another tweak too soon, but in order to get results you may have to stick with it for a few days to see where it gets you. Good luck Hun.x.

[first time mum molesey]

So, over three weeks on and DS is still not sleeping well. We've cut the morning nap completly (although he often falls asleep on me around 10am in which case I let him have 10-15mins as he's obviously tired).we did have a week where the sleep was better and he was making it through to 6am and I thought we may have been getting somewhere but he has reverted back to waking up for a couple of hours in the night although now we don't have to hold him constantly but we do have to sit by the cot until he falls asleep again.

I just don't know what else to do to encouragement him to sleep better. Every night is just a different sleepless version of the night before. I just want him to sleep better so we can start to enjoy the days better instead of simply just trying to get through them as best we can. He hasn't slept properly since he was 10 months and now he's almost 14, when will this phase end?  What else can I do?

[Buttonbobs]

Sorry to hear things are no better, what is your EAS looking like then (with and without the morning CN)?

[first time mum molesey]

Here it is;

Wake anytime from 6.15-6.45am, bottle
8.15am breakfast
10am CN around this time in car, pram, on me.  I cap this at 15 mins.
12pm lunch
1-3pm nap
3pm, half beaker of milk and banana
5.15pm dinner
5.45pm play followed by bath, bottle at 6.20pm
6.30pm bed

He seems to be happy with this routine and goes to sleep at nap time and bed time without a fuss.

Thanks

[Buttonbobs]

Is he still waking lots at night or is he sleeping well now? If he's sleeping well at night then this routine looks pretty good to me. What do you think?

[first time mum molesey]

He's still waking every night and staying awake for a couple of hours. When he wakes he cries, we give him a cuddle and he settles down and is happy to be put back n his cot. He lies there for a while, has a cry now and then but on the whole is quiet. If we leave the room though he starts to cry again so we are left to sit in his room and wait for him to fall asleep which takes at least an hour and a half. This week he's been waking 3-5am, tonight  he woke at 12.45pm so I assume I will be up til around 2.45am...

I have no idea what I can do to improve this, I just want him to sleep through. If you have any ideas pls let me know.

[Buttonbobs]

This sort of night time behaviour is normally because of one of three things:

1. Teething;
2. Routine change needed; or
3. Developmental disruption.

If there is any sign of teething, have you tried medicating for the discomfort to see if it makes any difference. Do you raise the head end of the cot/bed a little to stop the blood pooling and adding pressure in his head? If you can rule out teething then we look at the routine.

It is possible that those 10 mins in the morning are leaving him a bit UT - the long nap finishing at 3pm may just be a little late with a 6.30 BT and he might be waking UT. Is he resisting BT at all? You could try shifting BT 15 mins later to see if it helps.

But the developmental thing could be playing a part too. There isn't anything we can do to rule this out, is he learning anything new at the moment?  Developmental stuff is often just a case of riding it out. As you've been doing this for a while already, let's see if something else helps, what about using a sleepy training method for his NWs rather than sitting with him? Has he previously settled on his own or have you always stayed with him until he's asleep?

[first time mum molesey]

We give nurofen every night as soon as we go into him. We raised the mattress a few weeks ago.

He doesn't resist BT at all, I tried a 7pm BT tonight, no luck of course, he woke even earlier tonight , at 11.30pm and is still awake now, 3 hrs later.

I would say we still need to keep in the catnap, he gets really miserable and then its a real effort to wake him so i assume he is very tired.  He always sleeps the full 1-3pm but should I try and cut this though?

He took his first steps the other week so yes I assume it could be developmental.  I can handle riding it out for a week or two at a time but this has pretty much been constant for months now. I swear I've given up on ever feeling less than exhausted!  Its so hard with working as well. I do feel pretty much alone with this problem among my friends as all their kids the same age sttn til 7am...I'm desperate just for him to make it past the first part of the night. They all have their probs i know but only ever for a few days at a time, never anything where they are up for this long every night over such a length of time.

He's really good at BT and nap times at going to sleep by himself, during the night times we used to rock him to sleep. Now he will fall asleep eventually in his cot. If you can suggest anything else I can try that would be great.

[MommaStorms]

Just dropping by!! This must be so hard to deal with!
I have zero answers for you but one suggestion. Instead of giving him pain medicine when he wakes up, could you sneak in and give it to him around like 11, like a dream feed? That way it has time to be working in his system?

Also, I know this may be a dirty name around here but Dr. Ferber has a book that addresses many sleep issues like night terrors, maybe you could borrow it from a library?

[jessmum46]

Lots of Mums here have found other books such as Ferber's useful for tackling specific sleep issues, so not an issue to mention . However as I'm sure you are aware we can't and don't support his stance on CIO so would just caution you to take any advice and consider it in the light of the BW ethos of respecting your LO and supporting them through difficult sleep issues. 

Just a thought re the routine - I know you are getting a good 2h nap but to me it seems late in the day given LO is pretty young.  For comparison with a similar WU and BT with my DD at that age we would be having an 11.30/45 nap.  I wonder if although sleep totals are good, LO is very OT from the long morning and that is perpetuating the struggles at night?  I might try dropping the CN altogether but bringing nap earlier say 11.30/12 and see if that helps x

[first time mum molesey]

Thanks for the advice on the book, I'll see if I can find that and yes, I take the point about CIO, we do try to avoid that.

I'll try the suggestion about bringing the nap forward, that makes sense.  I'll give him his lunch early today then and try the nap 12-2pm.   

[jessmum46]

Are you waking from the nap?  I'd let him go up to 3h if he will for now xx

[MommaStorms]

Please know that I'm not recommending CIO. Dr. Ferber does have other advice. Just suggesting to look into it. I have read most of his book (though, years ago before I had kids, for child development class so I don't remember anything specific) but it covers a large range of sleep issues for children from infant to teenagers.

[jessmum46]

Absolutely hun wasn't suggesting for a moment you were.  Many other sleep books have some excellent and detailed information in them, thank you for being willing to help

[first time mum molesey]

Thanks for your suggestions, the earlier nap time didn't help though. Nothing is working. I've got the contact details of a sleep therapist so I'm going to try that route now.

Thanks for your input and support though.