What if baby doesn't cry but awake after 45mins, what to do?

[creations]

There are different thoughts on this.
Often people reduce the A time following a short nap to avoid OT
however
Reducing the A time can produce another UT nap, so the cycle repeats, and by the end of the day LO gets OT because of the missed sleep at each nap.

Tracy Hogg gave examples in her books of getting LO on a routine where by she kept LO in their room until the end of nap time even if they are awake (as you did), followed by a *full* (or close to full) A time, counted from when the nap *should have ended* rather than when it did end. This makes a monstrous long A time, at the end of which baby is really tired and likely to sleep, if they wake during the nap with OT Tracy would be there to put them back to sleep.
This is a faster method to get into a suitable routine (usually within 3 days) but we often go more slowly than this on the forums because it can be super hard work for parents. Often the slower way can still produce good, quick results, but you still need to be pretty consistent and very mindful of extending those A times, yk?

Based on what you've said I would keep her up the full A time following the short nap. You can try 2 versions of this
1. time the A from when she wakes at the short nap (if she sleeps 1hr time from WU 1hr 45 until next nap)
2. time the A from when she should have woken, when you got her up (if she sleep 1hr, lays in bed quietly another 30/45 mins then you get her up time from here - note this makes the time awake much longer 30/45 mins + A of 1hr 45 = 2hr 15 and this is what Tracy did in her examples).

Tracy also woke LOs when the routine showed the WU/E time even if they had had a disturbed sleep, wouldn't go down or OT wake ups etc, even if they had not fully rested. This again encouraged the routine into place quickly even if it did make LO tired and cranky. In effect it is following a set pattern for a number of days. You still listen to LO's needs and cues but in a more strict manner during that time. Once the routine is in place it is much easier to follow cues, allow shorter A time if you know LO had lots of stimulation that morning etc.

One more thing. At this age LO is more alert and learning about the world around her. Sleepy cues can be confusing, a yawn can now indicate she is bored of her activity and would like to do something else or that she is in the habit of going for a nap at this time. Switch the toy she is holding, read a book, sing a nursery rhyme or move to a different room or view point and see how she perks up. I think you will begin to see a subtle difference between a bored yawn and a "I really need to sleep now" yawn.  When extending naps, even if the sleepy cues are there, some times we need to go by the clock a little to help LO stretch the A time and start to get better overall sleep.

Today DD woke up after napping for 1 hr but wasn't crying

If she had her full A time prior to this nap then tomorrow I would increase first A by 10 mins and sneak into her room at 50 mins to W2S.

hth
let us know how it goes

[newbie_momsie]

Hi Creations!

DD is now waking up after 1hr-1 hr 40 mins after 2 hr activity. So far this week I have been trying 2 hr A time from when she woke up early from nap but this isnt going well as the routine is no longer on track. We started 4 hr EASY now. 4 feeds and a dreamfeed so 5 feeds in total.

This week she has been waking up around 6:15am instead of 530am. So the routine is 6:15am to 6:15pm and in bed by 7pm.

Today routine so far:

Wake up 6:15am
Eat by 630am
Nap at 8:15am
Woke early at 9:40am. No crying from her. Let her stay in bed untill 10:10am.
Eat at 10:15am
Nap at 11:45am
Woke early at 1:20pm. No crying
Right now letting her lie in bed until 2pm for next feed.

I feel like the intervals between feeds are getting shorter but i extend them by letting her stay in bed.

I am thinking of trying extending A time on top of her waking up early like the 2nd option you mentioned. So if she wakes 30 mins early from nap and no crying then let her lie in bed and then add another 2 hr A time do total of 2.5 hr A time to keep to the routine. I know this is very long A time. Plan to try for 3 days. thoughts?

thanks!

[creations]

Sounds good.
Although the A time from when she wakes until when she sleeps may appear long there is an additional 30 mins or so where she is 'resting' if not sleepign, it is a very low key activity as she is still in bed for that time. So, yes I would do as you've decided and see how things pan out over the coming days

I think your LO is close to 5 months now, so A time would be (as guidance) 2hr to 2hr 30 but some LOs like a very long A time, longer than the age 'average' and by increasing the A you are takign into acount her individual needs which is just what EASY is about.
It looks like the previous increase in A helped her sleep longer whic is good news

Let us know how it goes.

[newbie_momsie]

Since my last msg to you I kept her up for 2.5 hrs A time at 4pm and she napped until 6pm for her last feed before dreamfeed at 1030pm. But she woke up crying at 6pm. Sometimes she she would nap and wake up early and crying. Almost like she was in pain or scared about something. An escalated cry too. Have you heard other moms experiencing this too? Makes me wonder what is bothering my DD  
we pick her up and hold her to calm her. Sometimes we can put her down to fall back to sleep. Most times she is inconsolable and pu/pd doesn't work. She keeps crying. Do i keep up pu/pd despite her crying even though she knows how to fall back to sleep on her own but can't seem to because she is so wind up?

[newbie_momsie]

Another question...

DD last nap is either 4-6pm then feed at 6pm and in bed by 630pm or nap is 430pm-630pm and 630pm feed then in bed by 7pm. Usually she eats dinner and go right to bed after diaper change. Is this wind down routine too short since it is only 30 min? Is her bedtime too early? We only do 30 mins feed and activity in total because the BW book usually shows eat at 7pm and in bed by 730pm so only 30 mins. Not much "A" time after dinner feed indicated in the EASY examples in the book.

[creations]

Sometimes she she would nap and wake up early and crying. Almost like she was in pain or scared about something. An escalated cry too. Have you heard other moms experiencing this too? Makes me wonder what is bothering my DD

Are these crying wake ups just since increasing the A time and for naps only or night time too?
Can you post a full day EAS times please indicating where the crying is? If you can note the time of the crying if it is mid nap that will help too. Thanks.

Last A time is might be a full A time if it follows a full nap and LO likes a full A to bed. If the last nap becomes a CN (of 45 min) rather htan a full nap then the A time following is often shorter, the CN just allowing LO to rest eough to make it through a feed, btah and WD for sleep.  If I look at your full day of EAS times it will likely be easier to see what that last A time looks like.

[newbie_momsie]

Hi creations

Not sure if i should post this as a new topic under sleep section...

DD is waking up at 530am again. Definitely not hunger or growth spurt cuz she doesn't finish a full feed or just refuses to drink. I really think it is habitual wakung so I tried W2S this morning. I set my alarm clock for 430am but saw on the baby monitor she was already moving while being asleep like kicking feet and turning head. Do i wait until she is done all her moving and stops and then do W2S? Am i suppose to do W2S when she is in a deep sleep cuz I did that. Waited until 5am for all the moving to stop and then do W2S. I stroke her chest and nudge a little but she didnt stir so i stroke her face and she twiched and i stop and left.  Not sure tomorrow if i should try going in 1.5 hr earlier instead of 1 hr to try again. Or do i try 5am again for W2S like today? Thoughts?

Oh crap....6am...she just let out a big cry
Thx!

[creations]

It could be a little OT before BT, that can cause an EW where LO is still tired but wakes up around the 5am ish time.
Yes for W2S you would need to wait until she properly asleep, no point kick starting another sleep cycle if she is already in transition. what you saw at 4.3o might have been a normal transition rather than her actually waking for the day, so yes 5am or 5.15 for W2S if she is sleeping then (this should move the 5.30 WU to nearer 6am at least, that's one cycle only but she might transition again on her own to WU closer to 7am). Although I had great success with W2S for dropping naps I could not get it right for EW and my DS woke an hour earlier each night before I could get to do W2S.  it is worth continuing to try though.

For now I would try reducingthe last A time so it is a bit shorter than you have been doing the last few days.

When you have time have a look at my previous post and try to post a full day EASY. You don't need to start a new thread, you will get the same support here, if you feel you would like some additional eyes on your thread I can ask for other mods to take a look for you (i used to be a sleep mod, chances are you'll get the same suggestions from another sleep mod but there's always a chance I missed somethign, no harm in more eyes if that's what you'd like).

[newbie_momsie]

EASY has been different everyday lately

DD was awake for only 2 hrs this morning for A time frim 745am to 945am and was very cranky so i put her to sleep and she fell asleep right away. After 1 hr nap so woke up. She wines but doesnt cry. She couldnt go back for a longer nap. I dont know how to help nap longer anymore. i even tried holding her till she is drowsy but she doesnt stay drowsy enough to go back to sleep. What can I do to extend her nap? I cant do longer A time cuz she was so tired.

[creations]

She can't go back to sleep if she is not tired enough.
She may  need a change of scene or a different activity to help her get through a longer A time. At this age babies are becoming more and more alert and interested in learning about the world around them, yawns can mean boredom rather than needing a nap and going to sleep early can result in UT short nap and a grumpy baby (they are not always happy after an UT nap).

It would help to see a full day EAS times.

[newbie_momsie]

If she is UT why would she be so cranky and cry before i put her down for naps? i wonder if she is going through the 4 month sleep regression this month? She was a very good napper before and usually goes to sleep quietly by herself once we swaddle her.

Her EASY today which wasnt like this every day cuz everyday looks a bit different:

 5:00am Early wake. Fed her at 540am since she didnt fall back to sleep on her own and put right back to sleep at 6am)
745am woke up and lay in crib
8:15am Eat
Activity 745am-940am. I count lying in bed awake as activity time
9:40 am Sleep
1040am woke early from nap so laid in crib awake
11:45am Eat
Activity from 1040am to 1:10pm
1:10pm Sleep
240pm woke early and laid in crib awake
3:00pm Eat
Activity from 240pm to 520pm
520pm Sleep
630pm woke up
645pm Eat
745 bedtime
1000pm dreamfeed

Most of the naps today she needed to be held until drowsy to sleep which we normally do not do! We usually just swaddle her awake with white noise on and she falls asleep on her own. She was crying and fussy and cranky right when i lay her in her crib Fir nap time. Also, today she would cry once she woke up from her short nap. Is she going through a regression period? Sigh...feeling helpless and confused.

[creations]

UT babies can be cranky due to boredom. She is more alert at this age and her fussiness may be an indication she would like to change toy or environment for more activity time doing something different rather than being tired. it can be a confusing signal as LOs can yawn with boredom and we take it that they are tired and put them to bed.
She may also fuss or resist that nap (for example you have to hold her to get her to sleep) due to being UT.  My DS was just the same. Fussing or even crying before a nap and I assumed this must mean he was very tired (OT) but he was trying to tell me he was not yet ready for a nap.

I would increase the first A time to 2hrs 30. As you are doing 2hrs right now I would increase to 2hr 15 for 3 days then increase to 2hr 30 and let her settle into the routine.

Activity from 1040am to 1:10pm
1:10pm Sleep
240pm woke early and laid in crib awake

here she has a 2hr 30 A time and appears to sleep from 1.10 to 2.40 is that right? So a 1hr 30 nap?

[newbie_momsie]

Yes that is right that she slept from 1:10pm to 2:40pm. But she was also awake from 2:40pm to 5:20pm and that is 2 hrs and 40 mins activity time but she only nap for 1 hr 15 mins. I would think she would nap longer since she was up longer.

Okay I will give 2 hr 15 min a go and see. My husband wants to try 2.5 hrs though because he feels that she is almost 5 months and should be awake longer so I feel like I want to do what you suggest but I also need to try his suggestion to as he often feels that I don't trust his suggestions

Thank you! Will keep you posted on how it goes after the weekend.

[creations]

Yes that is right that she slept from 1:10pm to 2:40pm

OK well this is a great nap. A full 1.5hr is nothing to worry about at all, you need to be happy with this   it is no longer a 45 min nap hey
You put in your EASY that she woke early and lay in crib, after a 1.5hr nap I would not leave her resting in the crib I would get her up and allow her A time to be stimulating.  If some of her A time is spent resting in the crib this could leave her US (under stimulated) which is kind of the same as UT (under tired).  The A time prior to this nap was 2hr 30 which is great.

I wouldn't concern yourself too much with the last nap. Her A time was a little longer but she spent some of it laying resting in her crib, so it is very hard to work out, plus the last nap often become a CN anyway as it is in the run up to BT and just intended to tide them over so they don't have a super long A to bed.  If she'd slept longer there you'd start running into BT, you need enough time before BT for her to get tired.

Okay I will give 2 hr 15 min a go and see. My husband wants to try 2.5 hrs though

Just go straight for the 2hr 30 in the morning, first A time, she is handling it the rest of the day and she is resting for some of it anyway. Trust your DH, I think he is on the right track

[newbie_momsie]

So DD slept better for her naps past few days. About 1 hr 45 min to 2 hrs but her activity time were more like 2 hrs and she would rub her eyes a lot by then. There are still 1 nap that is 60 min but I guess some days she just wasnt tired enough to sleep longer.

Past few days DD is also having a hard time falling asleep at bedtime. Hubby had to hold her to help her fall asleep We usually don't do this.

Her last nap is about 1.5 hr long and I wake her to do activity time for 30 min...then feed her...she is up for 1.5 hr of A time so her bedtime is 730pm.

4pm last nap of the day
530pm activity time
600pm feed and activity time
730pm bed time

She would toss and turn and whimper a little for awhile (up to 1 hr!) and bursts of cries but not sobbing or wailing type. I dont know how to help her. Firm hand on her chest or stroking her head doesnt work. Tried PU/PD but she isnt wailing so i dont know if this technique applies to her scenario.

Could she be over or under tired?