changing routine for 15 weeks during playschool drop offs/pick ups

[trimbler]

That's great you've got two lovely naps there When you drop the 4th he doesn't have to go straight to 2 full naps plus a catnap, he could take a longer 3rd nap if you feel he needs it. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets quite OT with those long A times at the end of the day which could catch up with him leading to early NWs etc, how do you think he's handling it at the moment? How are the nights? I suspect the 45min 3rd nap is OT, maybe putting him down earlier for that could result in a longer 3rd nap and then he'd be more able to handle the last A time before bed. But I don't want to make you change anything if it's working well You'll want to push that 2nd A further eventually, keep trying, I know it's hard when they're showing sleepy signs but part of that could be his body clock telling him it's time to sleep, but if you 're able to stretch him without him getting too wound up then as you say, he might start doing a longer 2nd nap.

Well done on pushing that morning later, I really think you'll soon be out of this awkward phase, it's lovely when baby goes down for a morning nap with toddler out at playschool/preschool

That's slightly easier if DS1 will be with your mom, great that she can help out, that should make a huge difference and make it feel more like a holiday I'd certainly try the white noise, we didn't use it when DS was in our room and I slept terribly, whether or not he did! But DD is still in with us as we're not brave enough to move her into DS's room yet, and it's great having the noise on, we worry less about waking her up turning over in bed and probably get less disturbed by her little noises too, whilst definitely hearing the louder ones

[wilow]

I do want him to take 3rd nap longer but he wont sleep. Like today and yesterday he only slept for 30 min from 16.50 to 17.20. Today he was crying a lot after woke up but I think he is teething a bit. The night are good he sleeps from around 19.20-19.30 till 4.30am with DF around 22.30 - 22.45. He is awake around 4ish and then after feed hi is falling asleep around 5.00-5.30 and sleeps till 7.10- 7.20am.
It is working well except he is really tired by the end of the day and BT routine is very short I want to read him some books but we cannot do this because he is crying at this stage for sleep,rubbing his eyes to the bits.
Yes I cannot sleep with babies in my room thats why with DS2 we decided to move him earlier when he was 3 months. My partner does not have problem snoring and sleeping no prob I slept poorly with DS 1 till he was 6 months when he eventually start to sleep in his room.
I dont know when we are going to move them together probably  we have to wait till DS1 will start to sleep peacefully at night.

[trimbler]

I was exactly the same with DS in my room, but really found the white noise has helped a lot with DD, I hope it helps you on holiday.

Have you tried for the CN earlier? Might help prevent that OT at BT and even maybe get a longer 3rd nap... Sorry have to go!

[wilow]

So last night was not great he was OT and finished with NW at 10.10pm and 2.30am after feed at 3am he did not get back sleep till 5am!! and WU at 6.20am long day 1st nap not very good OT really bad second nap 2.20hr but CN only 45min I did try earlier but he did not fall asleep till 4.50pm he was fighting with sleep.....fell asleep 3hr since last nap ....I dont know what is going to happen at night.
With CN I try everything but he just does not want sleep longer...45min is the most.

[trimbler]

Oh (((hugs))) you must be exhausted! Let's hope that was a one off... Yes probably OT but as I said previously 4mo is a tricky time developmentally, there could be all sorts of things going on, even teething's not impossible, but don't jump to that conclusion. Do you think you could try a shorter A before the 3rd nap? Or is there a way you could APOP it, in a sling/car/pram? Sorry maybe you said before that that was a no go, I can't remember now? He might just surprise you with a good night, even if he does a short nap and needs an earlier bedtime - not promising anything but don't be afraid of EBT, even if it doesn't work now that could change...

[wilow]

Hi. Last night wasnt great either. He woke up at 10pm and 3am. I had to feed him earlier both times as he wasnt able to go back to sleep. He was tired I'd say. Last day was long for him 14hr and only 3.5hr good naps, because 1st nap was rubbish. Any way today he WU 7am but got tired pretty quick around 8.30am He fell asleep in car seat at 8.50am and sleep till 9.20am. Wake up crying and now I try to put him back to sleep tough one....
I think he is teething my DS1 had first teeth at 5months DS2 is 4moths now so this might be it beside he is eating his hand to the bits and I can see teeth buds in the gums. So it is All-in-One teeth, OT, and growth spurt....not easy time for my LO and for me fingers cross it will pass soon.
Thank you for all your support!!

[trimbler]

Oh (((hugs))) that is a lot to cope with, at least if it's teething it will pass eventually... Are you still offering a 4th nap if things go haywire earlier in the day, or is that gone for good?

[wilow]

I try to offer another nap  but he wont take it, just wait for BT and then go sleep.
He fell asleep now after 1hr fighting and I will have to wake him in 40 min :/ for feed he is not going to be happy...I dont know how we manage second nap as at 12.15pm we have to go pick up DS2 and we wont be back till 12.45pm. Im afraid he will sleep in the car and then again fight to go back to sleep so it will be rubbish day....maybe not

[trimbler]

Oh it's hard doing all this juggling isn't it! Roll,on the summer holidays, how many weeks?

[wilow]

We go next Saturday !! It is going to be long day the flight is in the evening I know boys will be tired and we also.

Anyway last few day were hard!! WU time 6.15am !!! and late BT with short naps in between.... But another problem we have NW and he cannot settle down by himself. He did not have problems before I heard him many times but he was going back to sleep without my help, and now I had to shush him down for 20 to 30 min. He was awake last night at 1.30 am and 4am. I did cluster feed 7 and 9pm and DF 11pm because I think he is going through growth spurt. I try to feed him at 4am and he wont take feed he was just sucking like soother so I put him down to sleep and he waked up at 6.15am but was not hungry as well. He did not come back to sleep and I fed him at 7.20am then he went to sleep (fell asleep by himself) at 9am slept till 11.10m. Second nap was night mare took him ages to settle down before wasn't an issue, he did have problems with 40min naps but usually felling asleep independently.  Any way second nap was 40 min, I could not resettle him. CN was only 30 min at 6pm. Took him ages to fell asleep again.
BT really late after fighting for an hour he fell asleep at 8pm. I do try PU/PD I know that this method can take long time to work took as 40 minutes for second nap and 1 hour for CN!! I dont know if this is going to work...

[trimbler]

So sorry I can't really reply now, our internet connection has gone down so on DH's phone, hoping engineer on Tuesday will be able to sort it... But I may not be able to get on until after that, so sorry!

[wilow]

It is ok. Getting ready for holidays DS2 now is not too bad with naps but he looks tired after 1.5 A time ?? It is a bit short for his age I think. I try keep him 2hr but last 30min he is cranky and crying. He still does not sleep well in buggy, he probably never will . I will have connection with internet on holidays so whenever you will have time we can talk. Thank you.

[trimbler]

Sorry about that, back online now Glad to hear naps have been a bit better, how are they when you keep him up 2h? When the A time ,stretches it's quite common for LOs to take a while to get used to it, you'll know it's working if he takes decent naps after that A time, if not then you could pull back a bit. Go by what seems to work best for him, using average A times only as a guide not a rule. But above all hope you can enjoy your holiday, have a lovely time

[wilow]

Some days he sleeps well, some days he sleeps 45 min and then he cannot resettle to go back to sleep. Now sleeping is all over the place we are in new place and he was really tired after the journey. Hope he will be back on track soon because last two night were sleeplness.  He was awake every 2 hours and I had big deal to put him to sleep. I try also explain my partner that I dont have to feed him every 2 hr at night and we had a argument about it, because he was pushing me to feed him :/ I try to tell him that for last week he slept through the night from 11 pm to 6am.
Probably I need to feed him more often because its really hot so maybe I have to come back to 3,5 hr feed? What do you think.

[trimbler]

Sorry for slow reply, my internet connection is letting me down! With the heat, I'd say offer if he seems to want a feed/drink, he will be more thirsty and may only need a very short feed to quench that thirst. Hopefully if he's fed well during the day he won't be hungry enough to take a long, 'filling' feed at night. I know it's scary thinking he'll go back to nfs again but I'd offer if you think it's thirst and you can always sort it out when you're home/when it's cooler if you need to. I'm giving DD water when she wakes unhappy in the night as she's older, she's certainly thirsty for it, but yours is still young so your milk will be best. Just make sure you're drinking plenty yourself Also you might like to try offering a little top up feed/drink before naps in the heat, rather than changing your whole EASY. Some mums do this anyway as their LOs can never stretch to 4h between feeds during the day. Keep an eye on nappies etc and signs of dehydration, I'm sure you are already. Oh and also bear in mind there's that 4mo GS. Sorry it's all happening at once and on your holiday too, 4mo can be so tricky but hope you can manage to relax about it a bit on holiday and enjoy