Author Topic: 3.5m Everything falls apart after 2am PLEASE HELP!!!  (Read 1121 times)

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Offline calomamma

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3.5m Everything falls apart after 2am PLEASE HELP!!!
« on: June 30, 2015, 21:16:54 pm »
Hello lovely mummys. I'm so in need of help with my 3.5mo. I am SO TIRED & teary over my nightly mess. This is my 2nd child and I followed EASY with my 1st but can't sort this out.

My 3.5mo is EBF. I have good milk supply and he's not waking due to gas or being cold or hot. I have eliminated all these maybes. I have written down 2 night examples and a typical day.

ANY ADVICE WILL BE SO MUCH APPRECIATED  :'(

NIGHT ROUTINE
// nappy, swaddle, white noise
6.30 eat. Still awake and cooing
7.00 sleep // rocked in arms
10.00 wake & nurse
12.20 wake & nurse
2.00 wake & nappy leaked. Change clothes & swaddle, nurse and resettle rocking in arms. Calm & Cooing
3.00 sleep
4.15 awake. Able to settle by keeping my hand on his chest
5.15 wake & nurse (cosleep or wanted to wake up entirely)

DAYTIME
6.45 wake (woken up by 3yo)
7.30 eat
8.30 sleep
// nappy, swaddle, white noise, rock to sleep in arms (5m). Placed in cot & opens eyes and moves a bit then sleeps.
9.00
// resettled in arms. Calm & cooing entire time. Fell asleep & placed back in cot at 9.20. Moving continously for 4 mins then falls asleep.

10.00 awake / eat
11.30 sleep

12.00 awake & nurse
1.30 sleep

2.10 awake
2.30 eat
3.30 sleep // placed in cot and woken by 3yo running in
3.50 sleep

4.15 awake & nurse
6.00 nurse & sleep by 6.30

NIGHTTIME

11.15 wake. Tried giving dummy and soothing with my hand on chest for 20m. Nursed and fell asleep

2.20 awake & tried dummy/hand for 10m then nurse & sleep

3.45 awake. Hand on chest and asleep after 10m

4.40ish awake. Hand on chest wouldn't sleep. Nurse & asleep

5.15 quick soothe with hand

6.00 wide awake. Tried settling with hand, dummy, rocking and nursing. Didn't want any.



Offline becj86

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Re: 3.5m Everything falls apart after 2am PLEASE HELP!!!
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2015, 22:21:55 pm »
If BT is 6:30, WU being at 6am is pretty reasonable - an 11.5hr night is not bad. You may find increasing LO's A time a touch will help with the wakings in the early morning.

Also, with a stretch from 6:30 to 11:15, I'd just feed at that point rather than trying to resettle with a dummy for 20min. The quicker LO is fed and you're back in bed, the more sleep you get and the less awake and worked up LO gets so they settle back to sleep better too. At this age, feeding 3-4hrly at night is perfectly normal.

When you say you've ruled out gas in the early morning, how have you done that? Its just that a LO who is breastfed can have gas in that 2am onwards sort of timeframe without it being any other time and that's more to do with extra volume of milk you make while sleeping. That would be more likely if he's agitated at those wakings than if he's cooing though - more likely UT and needing that A time increase.

Offline calomamma

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Re: 3.5m Everything falls apart after 2am PLEASE HELP!!!
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2015, 22:44:34 pm »
Thanks becj86,

I understand 6am is reasonable with his bed time but its the hourly waking I'm finding hard. I'd be happy to nurse him every 3-4 hours but don't know why he's waking so much.

I give him shorter A times due to the catnapping and he is a clingy tired mess most of the day. He's happy for about 30m after waking then fusses if i don't hold him and after about 1.15 hours awake he's ready for another catnap.

I ruled out gas as I burp him after each feed even at night. He's okay with me waking him slightly to burp. When he does wake at night he is wriggling trying to get comfortable? And making those selfsettly noises. If it goes on I've tried to burp and never had any luck.

Is there anything else I can do other than stretch out A times? I did try the 2h wake time last week and he was an OT mess.

Offline becj86

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Re: 3.5m Everything falls apart after 2am PLEASE HELP!!!
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2015, 05:53:40 am »
Oh, I don't mean 2hr, more like 1hr45 at this point, though 2hr around 4 months is average - if you start off with that in the morning, you should get more than the 45min nap and he'll be better able to handle the longer A times through the rest of the day.

There's not much you can do for the early morning unsettledness other than the feeding (maybe try lying back for that night feed so there's a bit less flow to cope with while sleepy) and increasing those A times. It could be the gas is the issue but I reckon you'll hit the 4 month regression pretty hard if you don't increase your A times.

Yeah, that wriggling sounds like he's trying to move the gas through his gut - try bringing his knees up into his tummy and see if that results in gas coming out the other end - usually that happens around that 1-1.5hr after the 2-3am feed and then LO is unsettled for the rest of the night. By then it would be too far through the gut to result in burping ;)

This is a hard age for naps anyway, with the developmental stuff happening with sleep cycles becoming more pronounced. With the increase in A time, I would expect a 30min OT waking from the nap and maybe just go into his room and hold your hand on him from 25min to help him get through and sleep a longer nap, much easier said than done with a 3yo running around, I grant you. The other thing you could try is popping him in a carrier/wrap/sling for a nap or two during the day - that'll get him the sleep he needs and get his body into the rhythm of the routine whilst still letting you get out and about with your 3yo.

Offline calomamma

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Re: 3.5m Everything falls apart after 2am PLEASE HELP!!!
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2015, 06:00:51 am »
Thanks for your reply ☺ i have actually increased his A times today as you said this morning with 2 hours in the morning (he was happy with this) and the rest have been 1hour40. Not intentionally but I just watched his cues. I will do the leg movement like you said and see if there's any change tonight. It's nice to hear someone say it's normal. Truly Thank you. I just hear a lot of 'concerns' that by 3m he should only wake once a night after a dreamfeed. So it just makes me feel a bit better. I'll post tomorrow again.

Offline becj86

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Re: 3.5m Everything falls apart after 2am PLEASE HELP!!!
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2015, 06:45:18 am »
Goodness me, try not to worry too much about those 'concerns'. I guarantee that not everything is as mums tell it at mothers' group ;) Get them one on one and the story changes so much xx

Watching his cues is good, that will definitely help you to increase those A times more naturally.

Offline calomamma

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Re: 3.5m Everything falls apart after 2am PLEASE HELP!!!
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2015, 21:54:57 pm »
Thanks Becj86  :)

Well I did have a much better night last night. Longest sleep he has had in over a month  :D

Only problem I had was that he was awake from 2-3.30am. Definitely gas on both ends. I couldn't get a burp out of him at the midnight feed. Can you offer any thoughts as I may just get some rest if I sort out his gas!

I lent back slightly as you said which did help with the gulping. My schedule fyi was (couple double feeds during day as he wasn't hungry yesterday morning due to all night nursing. So the extra fees in the arvo were to stop my boobs exploding :P and he was happy to eat

 6.00 wake 2HOURS
7.30 eat
8.00 sleep

8.50 wake 1HOUR40
9.30 eat
10.30 sleep

11.50 wake 1HOUR40
12.20 eat
1.10 eat to make up for small morning feed
1.30 sleep

2.10 wake 1HOUR40
2.50 eat
3.20 eat
3.50 sleep

4.20 wake 2HOURS
4.40 eat
6.20 nurse
6.45 sleep

12.15am wake & nurse

2.05am wake. Needed burping, pop offs, nursed then slept. Woke up and burped. Rocked to sleep
3.30 asleep

6.20am woken up by 3yo










Offline becj86

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Re: 3.5m Everything falls apart after 2am PLEASE HELP!!!
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2015, 00:31:53 am »
Ok, so I can see he's having those classic developmental short naps but overall, he's coping well with that routine. 

I reckon the early hours of the morning should sort out once you've got that gas sorted out. Glad leaning back helped with the gulping :) What I found was that it was best to try to resettle at that gas waking without feeding again if possible - LO is not usually  really hungry, just wanting to move the guts along, though in your case, it doesn't seem to have him waking more through the night, so just wanted to let you know what my experience was, yours may well be different.

I found for DS that the burping was tricky at that time of night, how are you currently burping him? Really, trying not to get too much air into his tummy in the first place is the best fix though, you can lie back quite a lot and still have him take a good feed. Pressure on the belly was key for burping DS, lying him along my arm (head on my hand, legs either side of my elbow) and rubbing his back worked well, as did sitting him up on my lap with the heel of my hand pressing on his tummy and fingers holding his head whilst rubbing his back with my other hand. Rubbing his back in a circle up on his right, down on his left quite firmly but not so much as to have him vomit... patting kind of just shook up the milk and made his sleep more disturbed.

Offline calomamma

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Re: 3.5m Everything falls apart after 2am PLEASE HELP!!!
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2015, 09:56:45 am »
I'll try not feeding him tonight and just resettling when he has the gas. I did a search around and I see its pretty common. I remember my first had it too but she was swaddled with a muslin wrap so only really moved her head side to side and then settled herself but my little guy is in a Swaddle Up as he slept much better with his hands near his face but it also allows him to move more and wake up so I didn't really connect the two initially. He's a big boy (95th P) so it's easiest for me to burp him holding him perched on my arm with his head just above my shoulder. I bounce him a little and that usually gets the burp up otherwise I lean back a bit and it puts a little pressure on his belly. But some night feeds this is impossible as he's fast asleep and too relaxed to burp this way so I just pop him in bed and I guess that's where I'm going wrong?


Offline becj86

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Re: 3.5m Everything falls apart after 2am PLEASE HELP!!!
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2015, 10:05:00 am »
Yep, I'd reckon, not burping is a big problem at that time of night. Maybe try rubbing his back rather than bouncing?

Offline calomamma

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Re: 3.5m Everything falls apart after 2am PLEASE HELP!!!
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2015, 00:55:39 am »
A rough night  :( lots of waking. No belly noises or burps but insisted on nursing. After 4am lots of belly gurgles.

CAN ANYONE MAKE HEADS OR TAILS OF WHAT I'M DOING WRONG  ???  :-[


 6.30 wake & nurse 2HOURS
8.30 sleep 1HOUR10

9.40 wake 1HOUR45
10.00 nurse
11.25 sleep 55MINS

12.20 wake 1HOUR45
12.40 nurse
1.40 nurse
2.05 sleep 30MINS

2.35 wake
3.40 eat
4.10 sleep

4.40 wake
5.00 nurse
6.30 nurse & sleep

NIGHT
7.30 nurse
8.40 nurse
9.20 nurse
12.30 nurse
2.40 nurse
4.30 wake & settle
5.30 wake & settle
6.45 wake





Offline becj86

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Re: 3.5m Everything falls apart after 2am PLEASE HELP!!!
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2015, 03:27:29 am »
Hugs for the awful night :(

7.30 nurse8.40 nurse9.20 nurse
This here is probably OT. Without these, the night would've been pretty typical for him.

2.40 nurse4.30 wake & settle5.30 wake & settle
This here looks like gas.

6.30 wake & nurse 2HOURS8.30 sleep 1HOUR10
This suggests to me he's UT on 2hr - making it through the transition but not getting to 1.5hr is a sign to increase A time.

He's having those UT naps in the morning, then the OT 30min naps from the short naps in the morning and OT at BT.

Offline calomamma

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Re: 3.5m Everything falls apart after 2am PLEASE HELP!!!
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2015, 02:57:37 am »
Hi Becj86, its all making sense now  :D

I really don't know how to thank you love. I was truly struggling as I felt I had no control and no idea what to do and when this will end but I feel like I am armed with knowledge now! I understand what's going on and what tweaks to help fix it.

THANK YOU THANK YOU :-*
for your time responding in such detail and helping get through this. You're a wonderful person. I wish there was a way I could give you a 'rating' on here.

Warm regards xx

Offline becj86

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Re: 3.5m Everything falls apart after 2am PLEASE HELP!!!
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2015, 05:34:23 am »
There's a little link under each person's name which says "Thank You!" - that's what we use on the forum. We've all been in that situation where you can't see the wood for the trees and too tired to think, so I'm just here giving back a little of the support I received.

Hugs and hoping that you're able to get some better sleep soon xx