Later BT ever the answer to early waking?

[jessmum46]

Thank you ladies I'm feeling really down about it right now He keeps waking DD and we are all losing out on a lot of sleep. Grumpy times he's cutting his 3rd canine but gets meds if needed and I honestly don't think that's the issue, it's gone on too long!

Last few days.....

21/7 WU 5.30 ?doze 15-20 mins to 6.15
Tiny CN 2-3mins around 10.30 in car
Nap 11.45-14.00 (resettled x2)
BT 6.30 short NW 21.20

22/7 WU 6.45 but unsettled 4.45/5.20 *has a cold*
Nap 11.45-13.30
BT 6.30 short NW 22.00

23/7 Unsettled early hours WU 6.05
Nap 11.40-14.40 (nursery)
BT 6.30 sttn

24/7 WU 5.30
Nap 11.50-13.30 (nursery)
BT 6.20
Unsettled 3&4.45

25/7 WU 5.20 ?doze 5.35-50
CN ~9.45-10
Nap 11.55-13.50
BT 6.35
Short NW 01.15 nurofen

26/7 WU 5.40
Nap 11.45-13.15 (resettle at 55mins)
BT 6.30

27/7 restless from 5.05 WU 5.35

I think the later wake ups were really only related to having a cold and needing more sleep, the other days were more typical. I feel like he's up early so OT for set nap at 11.45/12 (nursery routine) then will go down for bed at 6.30 even if nap is long as he's already had so much A time in the day. 

[newkidontheblock]

First of all, it's great that his naps have lengthened at nursery! That must be a relief. How do they do it, I wonder? Get all those babies to sleep. Magic, no doubt! Is he doing that nap without needing a resettle?

I feel like he's up early so OT for set nap at 11.45/12 (nursery routine) then will go down for bed at 6.30 even if nap is long as he's already had so much A time in the day. 

So just throwing an idea out there. This is just what worked with Eris, mind you, so I may be completely off base. I think you are right with the OT theory but with B, he sleeps easily whether OT or UT, right? So yes, he is tired enough to go to sleep early but since he only ever does short nights, he is up early as a result. Maybe no other option than to push BT much later?

[Shiv52]

Neither of mine did well with EBT. They just woke 11.5 hours from BT. So I think you're right it's not really an EW.

I think at this  age after such a good nap Id be pushing toward 5 hours of A time. I think some says he's onky getting 4.5? 

If found nap and bedtime creeping too far back id do a late pm catnap and get bed to a reasonable time.

Hugs. That 5am atart would be driving me nuts x

[jessmum46]

Thank you Fleur and Shiv

Today B slept 2h35 at nursery so I had him in bed just before 7 (thought we might as well take the plunge) and he was off in 5 mins or so.  Seemed pretty tired but long mornings will do that I guess.  It was about 4h45 A time after the nap.  I don't think he's needing resettles at nursery but have a sneaking suspicion they are letting him nap in a bouncy chair mega AP but it's getting some good naps and he's still self-settling at home so hey ho.

[newkidontheblock]

Ah.. So that's their magic trick!

So, just like Shiv said, since we were getting only 11.5 hour nights anyway, at least a later BT helped push WU later. If nap ended too early, we did a 10 minute CN. Mind you though, after a while she got too refreshed after that CN and I'd have trouble at BT, so I just dropped it.

Oh and even after dropping the CN, I never used EBT even if the nap was short. It just stopped working

Hugs! We really need to kick this EW in the bum!

[jessmum46]

Yes we do!! Not a roaring success today, woke 5.20 possibly dozed a bit then yelling to get up by 5.50, sigh.  Teeth could have been a factor, that canine has just broken the gum now and he hadn't had any meds overnight. But could just be tiredness. Who knows! Mum has him today so not sure how it will go....

Btw I wish I could get a pm CN but the only time that's happened in months is when he only slept 30 mins at lunchtime....

[Martini~]

It's the same with us. So what are you doing with this late BT Katherine? Are you committed to 7pm?

[Haribo2012]

Hugs hun let's hope it was that canine. I guess it wasn't the worst night really 10.5 hours with a 2.5 hour nap!? My DS really only ever did 8pm-6.30am with a long lunch nap....I think he poss little nearer 18 months by that time. We did have very bad sleep from around 15-18 months that I could never fix or explain so put it down to teeth!!(sorry hope that doesn't make u despair)

Great that naps are good at nursery though, I found out after many months that DS napped on a bean bag with his key worker stroking his head lol didn't get that treatment at home and didn't affect self settling here so maybe they separate the 2!! xx

[Martini~]

Ah yes forgot to mention! Nursery rules are nursery rules and I wouldn't bother if they are successful. These little munchkins are good in understating what's at home and what's at nursery. I even heard of kiddos who can't sleep at home without a lovey/sleeping bag/blankie/dummy but they are very well at nursery without it:)!

[creations]

Hi, I've only been able to have a very quick browse through the thread and not sure if/when I'll be able to come back so please forgive me if I haven't got a full grasp of your routine...
I'd just shift the routine.  Aim for moving BT to 7.30 over the space of a few days to a week and get the WU time more reasonable (say 6.30).  It seems to me many of us put up with a horrible 5.30am WU due to the fear of moving things, but if it was 3.30am or 4.30am we'd *have to* move the routine yk?  And when the clocks change every shifts the hour anyway so it's a relatively 'normal' thing to do. As you say the early morning is disturbing everyone so I'd just do it. Shift 15 mins every like the clock change time shift and just keep going - I mean don't shift 15 mins and wait for morning Wu to shift 15 mins before moving again, just keep going. 15 mins later day 1, additional 15 mins later day 2 etc. So by day 4 (or 5 if you stick at 30 mins later for 2 nights) the shift is done. Don't expect WU to change in those first days.
Where I always went wrong with DS's morning WU time was going too slowly and hoping WU would move before shifting again. Once I worked out he lost *less* overall sleep if I just cracked on with it, things worked out much better. If I had my time again I would certainly shift DS's routine at a younger age rather than waiting and hoping and trying to avoid OT.
The reason I suggest to keep going is that if you shift 15 mins and keep waiting for Wu to change it may not, it may just reduce night sleep by 15 mins each night (this happened with DS) so over time there is a huge loss of sleep adding up every day.  If you increase rapidly the OT comes on faster but overall less sleep is lost because the WU shift also comes faster.
xx

[Shiv52]

I'd imagine it would take a bit of consistency with the later bedtime to see if it would affect wake up. I know it's a long day but here 4.45 A time after such a good nap likely wouldn't have been enough to encourage longer night sleep initially YK? I had babies who always needed good amounts of A time and by 1yo were on at least 5hours A time after the nap.

I was the same as above too. Once I got bedtime to where we wanted it we did set bedtime and naps and it worked well with both mine.

[Shiv52]

Posted with creations. I totally agree. I do think these shifts are better happening quickly x

[jessmum46]

Thank you, we will plod on! I can live with a 6am WU if needed, not sure DH will be too keen on a 7.30pm bedtime but I will discuss it with him.

[creations]

FWIW I dreaded it when BT here had to move to 8pm, the first week I really felt shattered having DS around that extra hour and wanting him asleep in bed so my Y time could start, but after the initial 'shock' of it my own body adjusted too. It turned out really lovely to have him up that extra hour, we had some wonderful family time/activities, dinner didn't have to be so early, we all enjoyed that time together... and the morning WU being more like 6.30/7am was heaven!
When he dropped his nap BT moved back to 7pm (12hr night) and we had to shift our whole routine again, we all felt our evenings together were rushed and not long enough!  Of course after a short while we again adapted and happily enjoying Y time and the amazing 12hr nights.
What I'm saying is, it may seem awful for BT to move later but in our case at least it turned out to be lovely.

[Martini~]

And I would say Hon that already 7pm is a shift for you as you were going for 6:20/6:30.