Extending naps, settling at night and early waking

[Helentracey]

A few questions in one here but I suspect they are all part of the same issue. My LO is 16.5 weeks and for the last couple of weeks has been waking at around 5am. I thought this was due to moving him from his cocoon to the cot however it hasn't happened every night and some nights he still sleeps through until 7 (which he's been doing since he was 7/8 weeks old). I therefore t hint it may be the 4 month sleep regression. I had some advice from here on ssh pat, however he also struggles to go down for naps and has begun to have 45 minute naps so yesterday I began using the technique listed on the board for holding his legs and putting my hand on his shoulder, which seemed to work to varying degrees yesterday. This worked well for extending naps and I then used it this morning instead of ssh pat at 5am. A few questions- does it sounds like sleep regression at night, am I right to be using this technique as an adapted ssh pat at night and for all times how do I begin to reduce the time I'm in the room holding? I currently do it until he is past the jolt stage, which can take between 10-40 mins.

[creations]

It does sound like the 4 month regression, its a common time for LOs sleep to go off track.

One of the things to be mindful of at this stage is the A times increasing and most LOs can move to the 4hr EASY (rather than the 3hr EASY) so eating every 4hr rather than 3.  Often LOs begin to wake earlier in the morning if their first A time is too short, also naps shorten to one sleep cycle as LO is UT (under tired).
Without seeing your routine I don't know if you have moved to 4hr EASY and if A times are age appropriate but if you'd like to post your EASY we can have a look? If you can post the actutual (rather than ideal) times something like this
WU 7.00
E7.00
A 1hr 15
S 8.15-9.00
A
E 10
and so on with your times through the day plus any DF or NW. Don't worry if the EAS pattern is a bit messy and E comes before S etc, just post what's happening.

WRT to your question about holding through the jolts.  This is a useful tool to remind or teach LO they are to stay asleep, it help them transition without fully waking and can really help as a tool to avoid OT by helping them sleep longer. It is something you can continue with for as long as needed but you can also hold off after 3 days and see if they can get through alone, and re-start the following day if needed.  It's fine to use it in the night and for naps.
You may find with a routine tweak your Lo returns to transitioning alone like he did prior to this phase of early mornings and short naps and you will not longer need to HHTJ.

This phase of regression is very common though, many LOs short nap between 4 and 6 months, it can seem like for ever when you're living it. Try to get a rest for yourself when you can.

[Helentracey]

Thanks for your speedy reply and apologies for not getting back sooner - we have been on holiday! I had begun transitioning to 3.5 EASY - I am EBF and so I'm not sure I'll get to 4 hrs although I will continue to move it in that direction. On holiday I fed more frequently as it was v hot so hoping to get back the plan this week. Before holiday our day looked something like this:

WU 7
E 7
A 2 hrs
S 9-9.40 or 10.20 depending if I have been successful in extending the nap!
e 10.20/10.30
A 2 hrs
S 12.20
 Wake up 1 if can't extend nap
E 2
A 2 hours
S 3-3.45 if can't extend nap
A 2 hours
E 4.45/5
S 5.30-6
Small feed at 6.45 (from one side)
Bath 7
Remainder of feed from 6.45 at 7.15/30 (I.e from other breast)
Bed 7.30/7.45

Feeding becomes more frequent later in the day and I have always cluster fed to help ,y LO get through the night. He has slept through the night from 7/8 weeks so I thought this helped but now not sure?! EAsy looks different on those days I can extend naps, so generally I try to stick to eating every 3.5 hours and awake time of 2 hours.

[creations]

Hope you had a nice holiday

Can you tell me how long you have been giving a 2hr A (is it just recent or been a while?) and are you going in to try to extend every nap?  What time do you go in?

2hr A time is the guidance for this age but I'm just wondering if he needs a bit more, I don't want to advise much more if you've only just moved to 2hrs.

[Helentracey]

I only extended it about 7-10 days before our holiday - and he is definitely showing signs of tiredness at 1h 40 ish, but where possible I try and hold out until 2 hours. I extend every nap when we are at home however we are rarely in all day and we were away last week so it wasn't consistent then either. He tends to jolt on the dot at 35 minutes so I go in around 30 mins to catch it.

[creations]

Can you try tomorrow to extend the first A time by 10-15 mins.  Change his activity, go into another room, have something planned he has not seen before such as a sieve or balloon whisk or something like that from the kitchen perhaps (something safe!) and just explore that quietly together for the extra time.
Only for the first nap. I'd like to see what happens for say 1 -3 days and just see if it helps with extending the nap.  I would suggest being there to sooth at the 30min+ mark but perhaps hold off from holding through the jolts tomorrow and instead observe what happens, if there are jolts what time, if there is fidgeting, fussing or a mantra, what time, if he self settles etc.
If he properly wakes and calls an "I need you cry" do step in to help support him, try to re-settle (I know it is often harder to resettle after a full awakening but I think it would be helpful to see what is happening).  Try to re-settle for the rest of the nap time (say 45 mins as that would be close to 1.5hrs total nap time by then).
For the second nap time a 2hr A from the end of nap time whether he was asleep for the whole nap or not.
Thereafter do your usual thing, if there is a short nap follow with your regular 2hr A (timed from wake up which is what you've been doing to now) and another nap.

Post your full day EAS times with some little notes about waking/settling/jolts, please also include right up to and beyond BT (eg if there are any NW).
Sound ok?

[Helentracey]

Sounds good - I have family visiting tomorrow so if I am not able to be consistent I will try to get back to it towards the end of the week when they have left. I have left him before when he jolts but he wakes and then this turns into talking which eventually escalates into a come and get me cry. I have found if I watch and move in after his breathing increases and he begins to jolt I can generally extend the nap but if I move in late he becomes fully awake (as you outlined) and it is more difficult to extend. I will reply when I have two consecutive days of info, which will hopefully be by the end of the week. Thanks!

[creations]

OK, enjoy your family visit

[Helentracey]

Hi,

Apologies for the delayed reply. I e tended the A time to 2.10/2.15, and last week this seemed to work. Eg he slept through the jolt and in fact I stayed downstairs just to see what happened so I didn't interrupt him. He had 1hr 20-30 naps in the morning on two days running which meant we were almost textbook following the 3.5 hr EASY. I kept all A times to 2.15 and then he had a catnap around 4.30, awake just after 5, bath at 7, then feed and asleep by 7.45. However, I then went and stayed with my parents and kept him up for the same time but he didn't sleep through the jolt in the morning on two days running, I then came home and the same happened over the weekend. Yesterday was bizarre anyway as the clocks went back but this was what happened:

6.30 awake, feed
8.30 sleep (I was out and my husband said he was v v v tired so put down after two hours)
9 awake, held to extend nap but wide awake
930 feed
1030 small amount of purée
11.15 sleep
12 awake, held through jolt but wide awake again
1230 feed
1430 sleep
1500 awake as above
1700 catnap
1730 awake
1845 half feed before bath
1900 bath (v v v v tired and upset which was unusual)
1920 second half of feed then bed

He would normally wake at 7 but the clocks went back and this morning I held out until 7 as he woke at 620, but he did go back to sleep so I woke him at 7. He has been teething a bit but that didn't really seem to be the problem yesterday. As the clocks went back I assume he was massively over tired too but generally if he doesn't sleep through his jolt we end up having four naps when really I am thinking we need to start to reduce from 3 to 2! I just want him to be able it have at least one decent nap as despite being wide awake after 30-35 mins he is clearly exhausted so I think he needs extended naps.
Thanks

[creations]

Am I right in thinking he's about 5.5 months now?
The A times shoot up pretty fast between 4 and 6 months.  It could be that the trip and clock change has thrown him off track but it could well be he needs another A increase, I  know it seems soon...
Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!
So I would increase to 2hr 30 and do as you were doing with the W2S to help him through the jolt/transition. Do this for 3 days then hold off to see if he'll do it himself. Part of this is to help him, part of it is to tell him it is sleep time, he needs to be 'told' to sleep longer to build a habit.
Try not to let the last A time get too long just before BT, if the naps work out to leave a long time before bed I'd move BT just a bit earlier to prevent OT.
hth

[Helentracey]

Thanks I'll try that - he will be 22 weeks tomorrow, so not quite sure how that works in months but just short of five months! I'll report back...

[Helentracey]

Hi

Thanks once again for all of your help, this has been a great resource. A few more questions if that's okay?! So in general we are doing an extended first nap but I am having to hold through the jolt. When I stand back he wakes and I then need to put my hands on him and occasionally ssh for him to go back to sleep so I have tended to do w2s to prevent this...one thought for why this continues to happen is that on a Monday we have swimming at 10, which is in the middle of a nap so I have to wake him after 35 mins on a Monday. I extend the rest of the first naps in the week and it gets easier as the week goes on hence why I think it's related to to swimming. I will be getting to the stage soon where I may need to keep him awake until after swimming as A times continue to increase so have you any suggestions for how to do this I.e get up slightly earlier / later, etc. Swimming is 10-1030. For the second nap in the day I am not extending apart from on on swimming day as this is not leaving enough time for a short nap around 4.30. I have tried extending a beyond 2.5 hours but I don't think he is ready yet...is this the right thing to do and is this contributing to why I still need to hold through the jolt for the first nap? Once we move towards two naps is it possible that my LO will naturally sleep though the jolt as he is more tired or will I still need to hold through the jolt? Sorry lots of questions here! Also should there be a cut off time for the last nap? At the moment I am making sure he is awake by 5/510 for a bedtime of 7.30/7.45. Thanks

[Helentracey]

Forgot to add that on a Monday I currently only do 2hr 10 A time before swimming to give him a 35 min nap before we need to leave - I worry this is disruptive and confusing for him hence my query around trying to leave it until after swimming so he has a more consistent A time!

[creations]

Some LOs respond quite well to having one day off track (swimming day) so long as the next day they can get back on track again, but it sounds like your LO doesn't much like that method.  Mine was the same really, he liked every day to be the same.  I think you are right that the swim day is effecting his ability to get into a routine and causing you lots of work daily holding through the jolts or W2S.

Options then if swim class is something your really want to do
- continue as you are until A time extend anyway (chances are LO will need to sleep directly after the swim)
- wake him daily in the morning (move BT to a suitable time) so that you can fit in an A time and a decent nap before swimming, this way you can run the same routine every day and his habit of sleeping well should improve (the way you see it happen over the week but then back to square one on swim day)
- switch the day around, but do it for every day, making the first nap a CN which usually comes at the end of the day, so just the way you do for swim day you do a slightly shorter A time and expect a CN length nap. Then you work on nap two instead and make that a really good nap.  Again this is about having a regular routine every day.  This can work until the CN is dropped and he can last until after swim class.

There aren't lots of options but some ideas for you

[Helentracey]

Great thanks for this - I'll have a think. Do you think that not extending second and third naps is the right thing to do on a normal day (non swimming)? If I also extend the second nap we don't have time for a catnap at the current A times but not sure what to do for the best! Also is the sleep regression and the need to w2s at 35-40 mins something he will grow out of? Just worrying that when naps drop to 2 and then 1 he is going to be v tired during the day otherwise! X