3 weeks old and crazy long A times

[michaeljacknnugg]

DS2 is 3 weeks old today and doesn't give a whole load of indications that he's ready for a sleep. But by the time I've got him to sleep his A time is around 2hrs or more.

Normal?

[creations]

I remember mine had inconsistent A time when he was tiny.  Sometimes he'd seem ready for a nap and would happily go down in his travel cot (in the family room) but then just stare for ages, no fussing, quite content but just not sleep.  Sometimes after an hour or so he'd nod off, I generally just thought it was a step towards independent sleeping for him to be able to lie there watching and listening and nod off in his own time. Also sometimes he'd sleep for a bit, wake but not fuss and then do the watching and listening for ages and eventually nod off again.
I also remember at around 4 months when I found the forums (when he'd started taking short naps) I was still following cues and his first A time was long and the rest shorter.  I tried for quite a while to reduce the first A time because obviously he was above guidance times and rather than cue following I was looking more at suitable routine times, it turned out he needed longer rather than shorter and he always had that super long first A time right up to dropping the nap completely. It's just his way.

I really wouldn't worry if he seems to be ok with it.  No point stressing yourself over A times from such a young age, not unless there is a problem. xx

[michaeljacknnugg]

Sometimes he doesn't sleep at all between feeds! I don't have a problem with it as such, it's just that sometimes he will decide that late evening is the time for these long awake spells and then we don't get any sleep. I worry about DH driving on that much sleep, so I want to gently nudge him towards being more awake in the daytime.

He's just so nosy! Like you say, awake, watching and listening!

[Lindsay27]

He's just so nosy! Like you say, awake, watching and listening!

Oh jeepers this was my DS.  My MIL used to say "well doesn't he just nod off and fall asleep eventually?" Nope.  No he doesn't.  Unless he had a wind-down and predictable routine, he did not sleep (other than in the car).  That said, I believe this was closer to 8-9 weeks.

I don't really have much advice, my only thought it if you want to shorten the A times maybe try putting him in a swing for one of the naps/between feeds?  I know you don't want to start a prop association, but 3 weeks is still so little I don't think a swing would do much harm and would give you a bit of a break (hopefully

[michaeljacknnugg]

We don't have a swing! I did put him in the sling for his next nap though and he had 2.5hrs . I hurt now as I'm not yet fully healed and I can feel that it has pulled on my stomach.

When I can drive again we will be out and about at relatively predictable times (horses, school run) so he can sleep on the go for at least one nap. I hope he does!

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I hurt now as I'm not yet fully healed and I can feel that it has pulled on my stomach.

Eek! Be careful Mama!!

Sorry not much help. I remember some calm wakeful evenings ...and then they turned in the 'witching hour' which was more like 3 or 4 hours I'm sure.

[michaeljacknnugg]

Definitely not doing that again as my body is not thanking me for it today! I think I'll ring the midwife to check in.

Well, he was up for a wakeful period in the night after not much day sleep (maybe 3.5hrs overall) so I'm not even going to try to figure him out yet. Just write a few bits down and see what emerges. He's got himself onto a fairly predictable pattern of daytime feeds (9am,  12pm, 2.30pm ish) so I think I'll just trust that sleep will work itself out also.

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What a wonderful approach to take
Gosh the early days are seriously hard though aren't they?

[michaeljacknnugg]

Yep. Tough as. I suspect reflux after a 24hr period where I could barely put him down, so I've put in a call to the GP.

[creations]

Sorry to hear that

[michaeljacknnugg]

Ok, I'm back. I think we've figured out that we don't have a reflux problem (phew!) and that he is gaining weight and feeding well.

Sometimes he will be so, so hard to get down for a nap. I catch him at first yawn if I can, start trying from there (he likes a bum pat and to suck the dummy/a finger but he just doesn't sleep. After 2-2.5hrs of A time I will generally give up and feed him.

Then at other times he will have a very short A time, snuggle in and go to sleep all by himself. Generally he pulls a long nap at that point.


Do I just roll with it somehow? Try harder to get those elusive naps or not bother trying at all and trust that he will sleep when he needs to?

[weaver]

Sounds a bit like LO1 - textbook and touchy!  Would not sleep or even go in a buggy for a first while. Needed lots of contact, swaddling, long wind down and a dummy. Sensitive to OS and OT. Bright as a button

Over the hols maybe DH can do sling nap duty and maybe you and baby would manage a snuggly nap (sitting down!) too.

[creations]

Do I just roll with it somehow? Try harder to get those elusive naps or not bother trying at all and trust that he will sleep when he needs to?

I followed the EAS routine from 4.5 wks when I read my first BW book, but I didn't know A times back then and followed cues only. some of DS's A times turned out very long and some not so.  Admittedly we ended up with short naps at 3.5 months and at that point is when I needed to be told to increase A times. Even when I found the forums at 4.5 months (I think) he was having some very long A times mixed in with shorter, because they looked too long I was advised to shorten them...it turned out (as I worked out further down the line) that DS needed those long times, he was always UT when people thought OT. Anyway, this is a round about way of saying, if you didn't know about BW would it bother you?

not bother trying at all and trust that he will sleep when he needs to?

that would be my vote.  And when he older or it looks like he needs more consistent routine do a few days observation and see where he's up to and go from there. xx

[michaeljacknnugg]

Yeah, it would ease the pressure on me considerably. This morning I had to be out for 11 - sounds easy, right? For our 6 week check so not really negotiable. But between feeding, trying to get him to have a nap, eating my own breakfast and feeding again I was struggling and very stressed. I think over the holidays I will just bung him in the sling for that first part of the morning so I can get sorted. That's what I did yesterday and I managed to get DS all the bits to make the gingerbread house and give him some help to make the icing.

I don't mind holding him for a long nap at all, especially if I've been able to sort a few bits out earlier. It's lovely to sit and snuggle. But then that little voice in myhead starts to go on about props, yk?

I am totally going on cues right now and likely will use them for the majority of the time. I don't do well with calculating A times and all that!

[creations]

But then that little voice in myhead starts to go on about props, yk?

You either spend time now avoiding props (which could be lots of time and hard work) or you spend time later gently weaning them (which could be lots of time and hard work, or it might not be as he'll be older and already totally confident in your bond because you've held him lots now).  Either way it's something that takes some time - does it really mater if it is now or when he's older?
Really I think because you know so much you will be very able to move forward with independent sleep when you decide to go for it, the props-trap IMO is more when people either don't know that something will become a prop or don't know how to make it stop or get caught in the habit them selves.  As example, when DS was little had had his full feed and his A time and was beginning to need a nap my mum's approach was to swaddle him then go looking for the milk bottle (which by then was out of time and likely full of bacteria), it was her habit not DS's.  I told her for the umpteenth time not to give him old milk so then she wanted me to make new milk, no, then "well what am I supposed to do then?" "just let him fall asleep" and he did.  Left to her own devices my mum would totally have encouraged and kept going on a feed to sleep habit which DS didn't even have from 4wks+.  I think it highly unlikely that you are going to go down the route of encouraging props, even naps in slings you are fully aware of your choices.
And it sounds great that you're able to spend time and focus on DS so he can do things like the ginger bread house, that's lovely