Author Topic: Discouraged  (Read 3106 times)

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Offline AshleyMegan

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Discouraged
« on: February 23, 2016, 20:24:52 pm »
Hello
I have posted here re: short naps and my dd before.
My dd is just over 3 months (on the 16th), and has been sleeping great at night, from 7:30-8pmish until 6:30-7am.  We have been dealing with her napping from 30-45 minutes only, have tried changing A times by increasing, decreasing, changing activities to make sure not overstimulated, and tried all nap extensions.  Nothing helped. 

She wasn't seeming hungry when she woke early from naps so I didn't offer a bottle until today just to see.  And she drank it.

I started her on the 4 hour easy a while back because she was able to last 4 hours- she won't fuss for a bottle until 4 hours now, but maybe she's just used to waiting?  She drinks 7 oz every 4 hours.

Do you think it would be beneficial to revert back to a 3.5 hour routine?  Do I keep the 7 oz bottles and just add one more in there?  Any sample routines?  I'm so scared of messing night sleep up by doing this?  I'd like to try to keep the bedtime the same.

Help!

Right now, her E are 7am, 11am, 3pm, 7pm, followed by usually 2 40 minute naps, if I'm lucky.  :(

Offline AshleyMegan

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Re: Discouraged
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2016, 20:26:12 pm »
I would like to add that we are able to get her asleep initially wide awake with very little fussing and she doesn't use a pacifier.

Offline Bella89

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Re: Discouraged
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2016, 11:33:15 am »
Hi AshleyMegan,
I feel like it is more of a question about feeding with formula, so if you don't mind I will move it to the other board. I will keep an eye on the topic if any nap issues come up :)

Also, I feel like she has a little trouble transfering from one sleep cycle to another, but does she wake up crying or playful?

Offline AshleyMegan

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Re: Discouraged
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2016, 11:45:25 am »
Great, thank you :)
A lot of the time she doesn't wake up crying, but not necessarily playful.  She squirms and squirms.  I feel like she's trying to put herself to sleep but can't.  After so long of squirming, she starts crying.

Offline Bella89

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Re: Discouraged
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2016, 14:36:23 pm »
Gotcha!
It does sound like a genuine hunger to me to be honest, but maybe someone here will no better.

In the meantime please have a look at the link below:
Shush-pat - How to

It can be helpful with resettling.Have you try that?

Offline AshleyMegan

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Re: Discouraged
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2016, 18:40:03 pm »
Hello,
I unfortunately did try that, but when she sees me, I just make it worse.  LOL  I actually did try a different swaddle today, and she has slept for 2 2 hour naps so far.  Just when I'm about to give up, something amazing happens! LOL.  I don't know if it was because of the feeding or the swaddle.

She did stir after 30 minutes for both naps, after 1.5 hours of A time.

If I am able to stick with the 4 hour EASY, do you suggest I try increasing A time?  I make sure I put her down by 1.5 hours, but a lot of the time, she doesn't show tired cues anymore.  I'm afraid of her getting overtired though.  Or, if these naps work with this different swaddle, of her napping too much and it affecting her nighttime sleep

Offline Bella89

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Re: Discouraged
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2016, 11:42:58 am »
I think your intuition works best. I think I would increase that A time by 15 min for a few days and see. 15 min is very likely to OT her, but might show some results after 3-4 days:)

About the bottle part of question. Is she draining 7oz bottles or leaves a little? If she is draining them I would add 1-2 oz. I know it says what it says on the box, but I never limited formula to my DS after we weaned and he was happier with that :)

Offline AshleyMegan

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Re: Discouraged
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2016, 16:07:27 pm »
Hello again! :)
So I increased little miss to 8 ounces and she has now been sleeping an average of 1.5 - 2 hours for the morning and afternoon naps.  For the evening nap, she is unable to put herself back to sleep after 45 minutes.  Does this mean she's reached her napping limit?

I know she is able to go every 4 hours most of the time, especially with her 2 hour naps, but when she only has a 1.5 hour nap, she's not due for a feeding for another 30 minutes.  Should I feed her early or try to put it off 30 minutes? 

Offline Bella89

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Re: Discouraged
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2016, 23:14:41 pm »
Hi there,
that's wonderful news!!! Congrats on long naps:)

Let me say that it's completely normal for that last nap to be shorter, because it's the one that's suppose to disappear close to 5-6 months.

About feedings... I was always trying to delay it a little, but yes, feed her so she would know that E ia after S in EASY (well it's not but you know what I mean;)

Offline AshleyMegan

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Re: Discouraged
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2016, 18:51:15 pm »
Hi
Me again :)
The naps were going well.  She was able to settle herself back to sleep if she woke at the 45 minute mark yesterday and again this morning.
However, this afternoon, she couldn't.  I'm not sure if I should be trying any nap extension methods (I tried in past but our floors are creaky and often wake her).  Since she is able to self soothe sometimes, is this just something that will get better?  She wakes up miserable with short naps. 
I leave her for a while because I can tell she is trying to soothe herself back to sleep (sucking on hands, etc.) but then she gets frustrated after 20 minutes and starts crying.  I tried the shush pat but nothing works.  Ugh.

Offline Bella89

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Re: Discouraged
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2016, 19:23:04 pm »
Hi Ashley,
so she is now 4 months, correct?

I wonder if something is distracting for her or is she uncomfortable?

We know she is able to self settle, so it has to be something else. It's also around the time of 4 mo sleep regression...

Let's see tomorrow how it will go. Try helping her with going back to sleep for now. Either shh/pat r holding her hand, rubbing her cheeks.

How does her routine look like right now?

Offline AshleyMegan

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Re: Discouraged
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2016, 14:00:40 pm »
I took her mobile down in case it was a distraction but no luck there.  :(

She wakes at 7am, nap between 8:45 and 9, and if we're lucky she wakes between 10:30 and 11, and we feed her.  IF we do get a decent nap in, it's that first morning nap.  But lately it's been rare.  We try to do another nap around 1pm, and cat nap at 5.  Bed is 730 and she's still sleeping until 7am.

As soon as I go in and shush pat to settle her back to sleep, she starts smiling away and there's no getting her back to sleep.

Do they outgrow this?  Please say they do! And when?
I'm so frustrated :(

Offline Bella89

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Re: Discouraged
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2016, 20:16:03 pm »
They most certainly do! But to be honest, with my DS, just when we got out of 4mo sleep regression we jumped into 3-2 transition when he was 5,5 mo:/

So when she wakes up after a short nap she is happy enough that she would rather play than go back to sleep? I ask because that is a sign of being UT.
Are you coming in because you hear her chatting or because she cries for you? I never in my life managed to resettle a chatty baby:/
What do you think?

I would love to see your yesterday's routine as is, so;
7 WU
7:20 7oz of formula
8:45-10:30 nap
etc...


Offline AshleyMegan

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Re: Discouraged
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2016, 14:58:53 pm »
This may sound odd, but the other day, my hubby wasn't paying attention to the time and kept her awake for 2.5 hours, and she slept for almost 2 hours. 

Yesterday's first nap, I put her down after 2 hours and she woke after 45 minutes.  I experimented with her 2nd nap yesterday and kept her up for 2.5 hours.  It's near impossible to pick up on any cues from her, but she wasn't cranky when I put her down, just started to fuss slightly.  She slept for 2.5 hours.

So, here we are this morning.  She woke at 7, DH fed her (a little late) at 730 while I was still hiding under the covers.  I kept her up until 9:30 (again, just started with mild fussing), and it's now almost 11am and she's still asleep.  I did see on the monitor that she woke slightly at 20, 40 minutes but she stopped squirming within 2 minutes, found her hand, and fell right back to sleep. 

Is this normal for a 4 month old to be awake for 2.5 hours at a time?

If the rest of the day goes as planned, I'm not sure how the last catnap will work...
If I follow the 2.5 hour wake time, she'll have her 2nd nap from about 1:30-3 or 3:30. 
What should I do about her last nap?  We do last bottle at 7 then bath and in bed by 7:30.

I'll post in EASY format at the end of today for you to evaluate.  Thank you for all your help!


Offline Bella89

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Re: Discouraged
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2016, 20:03:57 pm »
Is this normal for a 4 month old to be awake for 2.5 hours at a time?
It could be, honey. Maybe it's not common, but you just found out what works for your baby :) Congrats on that!
I would hold on to it as long as it works.

This scenario is very similar to the time when LOs go through 3-2 transitions. Remind me how old is she now?

You can go 2 ways:
1. Start early BT so i.e. 6-6:30 (I personally always had trouble with that and my DS never felt good about it:/)
2. Try a short nap 5:30-6, but not go over 6, so you would have to wake her up. That will keep BT at 7 or 7:30. If you let her sleep it will push BT to 8-9 :/

Offline AshleyMegan

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Re: Discouraged
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2016, 00:39:27 am »
She's only 4 months- which is why it seemed odd to me that she was able to stay awake for 2.5 hours and in the process of dropping the catnap.

I think we'll try the very short nap from 5:30-6. 
When do I know when the time is right to completely eliminate the catnap?


Offline AshleyMegan

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Re: Discouraged
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2016, 17:25:50 pm »
I spoke too soon! 😣
Her last 2 naps were only 45 minutes and I didn't do anything different.

Offline Bella89

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Re: Discouraged
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2016, 21:19:53 pm »
You are correct, 4 months is still too soon to drop the nap completely, so you should still offer for at least a month.
I.e. my son dropped 3rd nap by 5 months, but it is still consider early.

It is still a game of good observation. Watch her signs. At 4 mo sleep regression it's always like this- it works for some time and you have to go back. That's why it's tough:/
Let me know how it goes!
I wonder what will tomorrow look like.

Offline AshleyMegan

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Re: Discouraged
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2016, 19:07:30 pm »
I'd say about 80% of her naps are 1.5-2 hours now :)

Our routine is as follows:
E 7:00
A
S 9:30 -11:00 or 11:30
Y

E 11:00 or 11:30
A
S 1:30 or 2:00
Y

E 3:00 or 3:30
A
S 5:30 - 6pm
Y

Does this look ok?  She has just started waking slightly during the night but is able to fall right back to sleep on her own.  She currently is eating 8 ounces per feeding.

Yesterday it seemed to take her longer to fall asleep for her last nap.  Could this be because there isn't 2.5 hours of A time after the afternoon nap? 
The other day we had to go out during her catnap and she'll usually sleep for a bit when we're out, but she didn't, and she seemed to do ok and not over tired.

Thank you 😊

Offline Bella89

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Re: Discouraged
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2016, 21:20:54 pm »
It looks great! :) Congrats!

It can be, but I think it's ok. It doesn't cause anything bad, she is fine. I would stick to this routine for a while as you found balance.

Also, I think she will push out that last nap by herself. She seems very proactive :p

Offline AshleyMegan

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Re: Discouraged
« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2016, 11:52:50 am »
Thank you :)
The last few days she has woke at 6am instead of 7.  We don't get her up until 7 though, as she is not crying, just squirming and talking.  She gets 4 bottles of 8 oz every 4 hours and is STTN.  Is there anything I can do to get the wake up back at 7?

Thanks!

Offline Bella89

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Re: Discouraged
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2016, 20:35:55 pm »
What was her day prior to 6am wakeup?
I wonder if its OT or short A time...

Offline AshleyMegan

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Re: Discouraged
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2016, 18:48:35 pm »
Hmmm it went back to usually 7am, sometimes 6:50, on its own, with nothing changed. 

We're still having some trouble, mainly with the afternoon nap.  She's about 50/50 for putting herself back to sleep after the 40 minute transition. 

Our day is whwt I had posted before.  Will this 2nd nap get better on its own?

Offline Bella89

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Re: Discouraged
« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2016, 19:39:28 pm »
So she wakes up after 40min afternoon nap and doesn't want to go back to sleep?
If so, that means UT.
We're talking about 1:30 nap right, not 5?

Offline AshleyMegan

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Re: Discouraged
« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2016, 12:08:27 pm »
That is correct.  Yesterday she woke, tried to get herself back to sleep, then when she couldn't, started full out crying.  I tried to get her back to sleep in her crib but she immediately calmed and smiled the second she saw me, and when I tried to leave the room when she was calm, she started crying again.

I could tell she was still tired.  I got her up, put her in her swing for 20 minutes, then put her back in her crib and she slept for another 40 minutes.  I don't know if I just should have left her?  But she was crying whenever I left the room :(

Offline Bella89

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Re: Discouraged
« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2016, 12:26:44 pm »
You did great! It is never a good idea to leave them when they are crying. If they are crying it means they need us. If we're there for LO that's how the trust is built :)

Hmm, it seems like she had trouble getting from one sleep cycle to another. The key here is to settle them in a way that doesn't require extraordinary measures like swing etc. Are you continuing shush/pat?

Offline AshleyMegan

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Re: Discouraged
« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2016, 14:40:02 pm »
I did try the shush pat and it does calm her, but when I try to leave the room, she starts crying again.  And if I continue to stay in there while doing the shush pat, she'll just smile at me.  LOL

Offline Bella89

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Re: Discouraged
« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2016, 20:11:01 pm »
Ok, do you think you could gradually slow down shush pat so she couldn't notice it? Than sit on the chair by her bed?
Like building a trust bond between you and slowly back up from her room (by slowly I mean few days)

Offline AshleyMegan

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Re: Discouraged
« Reply #28 on: April 12, 2016, 13:13:15 pm »
I will definitely try that. :). I'll keep you posted, thank you!

Offline AshleyMegan

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Re: Discouraged
« Reply #29 on: April 14, 2016, 19:29:57 pm »
No luck.  :(. Sometimes she'll have an hour and a half in the afternoon, sometimes only 40 minutes and I'm not doing anything different.
She seems to get more frustrated when I'm there with her, and she's such a light sleeper that I can't just sneak in.

Her morning naps have usually been at least an hour and a half.  I'm afraid she'll get into a habit of only 40 minute afternoon naps...

When they outgrow the 45 minute intruder, does the morning nap go better before the afternoon? 
Just looking for light at the end of the tunnel! Lol

Offline Bella89

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Re: Discouraged
« Reply #30 on: April 15, 2016, 20:14:21 pm »
When they outgrow the 45 minute intruder, does the morning nap go better before the afternoon? 
Just looking for light at the end of the tunnel! Lol
Yes!!! That is how you loose the other nap at 1yo (average) the first one gets longer and the other gets pushed down :)

I am so sorry you feel that way:(
Let's try something else.
Tomorrow, write down whatever happens for me: times, how did you put her down, when you noticed first signs of tiredness.
We will be more up to date and maybe someone else will look at it too :)

Offline AshleyMegan

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Re: Discouraged
« Reply #31 on: April 15, 2016, 21:48:46 pm »
Thank you.  Sorry I'm being such a pain 😣

E 7am
A
S 9:25-11:15 (usually 9:30 but showing cues a little early)
Y
E 11:15
A
S 1:45-2:35
Y
E 3:30 (didn't appear hungry before then)
A
S 5:05pm - 5:40 pm
Y

To finish the night, she'll have her final feed at 7pm, bath then bed around 7:30

Offline Bella89

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Re: Discouraged
« Reply #32 on: April 17, 2016, 11:10:42 am »
Oh you're not, believe me:)

I will be honest with you, I think I would go with what you have. Of course try to resettle during these 45 min naps, but she still has almost 4h of daysleep and it's pretty decent. I know it's difficult seeing her tired and not playful, but you are offering her sleep.

Your easy looks really good. Maybe someone else will spot something I don't see. Sorry for that:(

Offline AshleyMegan

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Re: Discouraged
« Reply #33 on: April 17, 2016, 12:55:48 pm »
Honestly, that's exactly what I needed to hear!  I needed reassurance to make sure I was doing everything I can.  😊  Thank you so much for all your help!