13 months and EW's due to OT

[zissi]

I have posted a few times about my lo's nw's. They don't seem to get better. We went to 1 nap when she was 10 months. It was probably a bit too early but she had s long a time and the second nap was difficult to fit in. And she woke for a long nw of 1-2 hrs chatting when we were in 2 naps. So now she has an a time of about 5 or 5.5 hrs and naps then for around 2 hrs.. We try to have bt max 5 hrs after this but often it takes her a long time to settle and by the time she sleeps she is even more ot. We have done early bt at 6pm but still same nw's. She pretty much wakes every sleep cycle and sonetimes she settles herself. But the later in the night the more difficult it becomes. For about 2 weeks she isn't being fed anymore at night and she falls asleep independently for naps and bt with a bit of patting and wi/wo. Since she is crawling she is much more tired and would fall asleep in the car after 4 hours a time. So I wonder if I should go back to that abd try a mini cn in the evening. It has been tried before with no difference with regards to nw's but maybe we haven't tried consistent enough. She will start day care in 3 weeks and there they only put babies for a nap at 11.30, so that's around 5 hrs after her wake up time. These nw's have been going on since she is 8 months, it can't be always developmental or teething right? We are both exhausted! Any ideas ladies?

[ginger428]

What a cute avatar!

So sorry to hear about the nws! You must be spent!

Can you post your EAS? And what time is she closing her eyes at night?

With a 2hr nap at 11:30, she'll wake around 1:30, and 5 hrs later would be 6:30. Is that her current bt? With a 11:30 nap, we were still doing 10-15min cn around 5pm, to get to 7:00 bedtime.  It may be worth a try before she starts day care?

[zissi]

thanks for your reply.
our easy over the last few weeks was something like this:
wu 6am
nap 11.30-1.30 /2pm since recently she wakes after an hour or so but is easily resettled. I suspect OT
BT 6.30 but often doesn't fall asleep before 7 or 7.15pm, chatting, standing up or getting distressed...
she is breastfed, during the weekend feeds quite a bit, every 3 hrs or so or when upset, during the week when I work she only feeds mornings, when I come home and BT. she eats solids quite well since Im not there to feed her anymore.
actually today my husband went shopping and she fell asleep on the way back after an A time of 4 hrs, he transferred her into the cot and she napped for 2 hrs 20 mins without wakening in between. so it seems her A time is 4 hrs again. she had a second nap after 3.5hrs and we woke her after 20 mins. (the nap happened in the skin though, not sure if she would have gone down for it otherwise so well) BT 6.50, asleep by 6.55.
since this day worked so well I will be aiming for this tomorrow again, I mean my husband will be lets see what the night brings...

[ginger428]

Sounds like a great catch up nap from OT. Let me know how the night goes!

Funny about the husband comment.

[zissi]

hey there, so the night was pretty bad. waking every 90 mins or so, easy to resettle. but then around 3 she wouldn't go back down and DH took over and got her down eventually.
yesterday and today we tried for a second nap around 4 hrs after the first, did not work. she wouldn't sleep. so early BT, took ages to settle her but last night was actually really good. 1 short NW. so weird, I thought we would have the night from hell after a 6 hrs A time till BT but no. not sure if it was coincidence or what. it looks like that second nap won't happen unless we are out and about and she is in the sling falling asleep... in this case I continue with early BT right?

[ENMS]

Have you tried short AM / long PM naps? I think that is what works best when LO's refuse the PM nap during the 2-1. I hate waking her up so I usually make the AM nap a car or stroller nap and then she gets a long PM nap in her crib.

The long PM nap may help her be less OTby BT?

[zissi]

yes we tried the short AM nap and long PM, problem is that LO always needs so much A time, so second nap would be very late and as a result would push BT out really late too. like today, even with a 20 mins CN LO didn't fall asleep for 50 mins... will keep trying for a really short CN or else early BT.

[ENMS]

Oh that sucks sorry

How long of an A are you using after a short CN?

She's a tough one to figure out. How have the last few nights been?

[ginger428]

We were on short pm nap (apop'd) or early bt for a while around 11 mo. It seems like the 6A allowed her to be tired enough for bed. But who knows right? We also went down to 10 min for the pm nap. Even with the cn, bedtime was only about 1.5-2 hrs after.

How were the past few days?

[zissi]

nothing seems to be working for us. the second nap works maybe 1 in 10 times with AP when out and about but I cant always be out and about. today LO only napped 1.5 hrs (usually 2.5), so I decided to go for early BT at 6pm. totally didn't work. she is still up as Im writing this, at 7.30pm. so early BT only backfires. it seems that she cannot do more than 11 hrs of sleep at night and then max 3 hrs naps, more often than not 2-2.5 hrs. she means she is getting too little sleep in 24 hrs but I don't know how to fix it. often we get nasty early wakings too, like at 5, we have excepted a wU of 6am now, it used to be 7. she is in day care now, so their main long nap is around 11 and thats what we always did at home too, so the short A nap and long PM is not an option. I wonder when she will finally grow out of this. for the last 6 weeks there are no night feeds anymore so she doesn't wake at night due to a feeding prob. she can settle herself completely by herself. she just seems to keep wakening because of OT. any other ideas??

[ginger428]

So sorry for the delay...

Could you post her routine again in EAS format? It must be so hard for you lately.. Any reprieve or help so that you can catch up on sleep?

The 2-1 transition is really tough... And one of the longest for some lo's. And yes, I hear you about the apop'ing for the pm catnap. It was such a pain to go driving around 5pm every night to get a 15min Catnap. It lasted a few months unfortunately.

Are you able to peruse the 2-1 support thread for support? I bet you've also seen the 2-1 article but here it is again for your reference.

From 2 to 1 nap transition (10-12m and older)

Again, if you could post your Eas again. Thanks

[zissi]

thanks for your reply. our eas is like the following:
wu 5.30
feed
breakfast
10 am snack
10.30-11am nap till 12.30 or 1pm usually, sometimes longer like 2. 20 mins other times 1.5 hrs
BT 6.30, often doesn't fall asleep for like 45 mins.

I have tried a few times BT at 6am but bare once it completely backfired and she only went down around 7pm. I know her early wake ups and NW's are linked to being OT by BT but early BT unfortunately doesn't work.
I have tried to have the nap later so the A time to BT isn't as long but then she does an OT nap which is shorter then...

so what can I do or do I just have to wait till she is actually read for 1 nap?

[ginger428]

I think you really are doing the best you can. A lot of hugs as I know this stage is grueling.
The only other thing I can think of is to do a 11am nap whenever possible to push her day later by 15-30 min. And even on 5:30 wake up days, try to push that 10:30 later, 10-15 min at a time to eventually get to 11:30. It could be that the nap is too early for her and like you said, she's onlly doing 11 hr nights.  I know you've already tried a later nap time that gives OT short naps, but it will take several days to adjust. Sometimes OT naps are easier to resettle, too and for the sake of her routine, I would help her if possible. Remind me again if you've tried to resettle her at wake up?

[zissi]

I will try that, pushing the nap out and see how it goes. its worth a shot! Thanks again...

[ginger428]

No problem... let us know how it goes! xo