Won't take first bottle

[Lindsay27]

We've been struggling with this for a while with brief periods where it sorts itself out, but for the most part my DD will not take her first bottle upon WU, no matter what time her NF was.

For example last night she took a 4oz NF at 12:30am, I tried to feed her this morning at 7am and she only took 2oz    So it had been 6.5hrs after her NF but yet still won't take anything?  It is making it impossible to get on a good bottle + solids schedule, and what I end up doing is feeding her when she wakes (usually about 3oz), then doing solids an hour later, then feeding the rest of her bottle right before nap.  The problem is though because her feed is divided like that, it ends up being divided like that for the rest of the day because I have no idea when she's truly hungry.  So when she wakes from her nap she will again only take 3oz and the cycle repeats.  If I wait to feed her after her nap often times then we don't have enough time to do a bottle then solids an hour later.

I've tried waiting to do her WU bottle until an hour or so after she wakes but it doesn't make a difference, and again if she's going 6+ hours after her NF surely she must be hungry by then?

So our days ends up like this for example:

E 7am 3oz
Solids 8am
E 10am 3oz
S 10:15

E 11:30 3oz
Solids 12:30
E 2:30 3oz
S 2:45

And so on...

[Lindsay27]

Thought it was worth mentioning also that we just started solids, she isn't taking very much quantity wise as she's not overly interested, and that I also don't necessarily offer 3 meals a day.  And also that she is already in the fastest teat/level 4 and that I feed her in her bedroom with the lights off because it is quiet and she's not distracted there.

I mean I guess all signs are pointing to the fact that we need to drop the NF, but given she's not really established on solids yet and her milk intake isn't super high, I feel like she still needs it ya know? She generally feeds 1 x per night.

[Martini~]

Mmmm to encourage morning milk at that age I needed to drop the DF? I didn't established solids very well than - maybe a very small meal 1-2x a day. Just the bottles 4x a day were enough. Quite soon around 7mo we dropped to 3x bottles a day with 2/3 meals a day. He started eating more but re bottles he started to refuse 11am one and it was always a struggle. When I ditched that one he finally started drinking more milk at 2:30 and his overall milk intake didn't drop at all. The same when I dropped the df. Just the bottles became bigger:).

[Lindsay27]

She doesn't actually take a DF  . She just has her BT bottle and then I feed her whenever she wakes in the MOTN.

This morning she took 2oz at 7am and then another 2 at 7:45 and she had solids so I think I am going to hold off on the top up before nap and hope that when she wakes from her nap she takes a good bottle then.

I do remember DS dropped to 3 bottles at 8 months but he increased them to 8oz so his milk intake was still okay, where with her right now she is doing roughly 4 x 5oz during the day and 4oz at night.

[Martini~]

Yep I get that she doesn't take df:). But for us df was similar to your NF as we didn't have any NFs at that age. So from 10-11pm till 7am and he still wasn't hungry . When I was happy that he took some more, one of his next bottles was smaller. In general - they seem to self regulate sometimes:).

[Lindsay27]

Ah okay, I get ya!

So when she woke from her nap at 11 I tried a bottle at 11:15 and she only took 3oz again.  It's just a never ending cycle of small feeds because of that first bottle being split in half.  I guess maybe I should just listen for when she tells me she's hungry, but it does make for introducing solids difficult.  But I guess at this point as long as she is getting solids once or twice a day it doesn't really matter much. 

It also just makes life difficult, like if I need to go out I'd rather go know she has a full belly ya know.  I guess I will just wait for her to tell me when she's hungry in the morning and try every 4ish hours from there.  It will probably mean we are on more of an AEAS cycle.

[Martini~]

Or just stick with hours and that's all. I was panicking so so much at that age that DS will take less milk then he needs but when he dropped df he never ever woke for a feed and being honest his appetite during day was... Changing:). Maybe just don't worry too much? I know it's so easy to say but probably that would be something what I would say to myself 2y ago LOL.

[Lindsay27]

Ya it's true, I do try not to worry about it, she clearly isn't starving!  Some mornings I just get frustrated but really at the end of the day it's not a big deal.  I think I'm just such a planner that it would help me to be able to plan our day around the feeds, but it's just so erratic right now it's hard.  But ya...not going to worry about it too much.  She's obviously happy and has a full tummy

[Lindsay27]

Okay she really is just starting to drive me completely loopy.  Last night she didn't take a NF so I thought great, we can get off to a good start today.

5:30am  - bottle 6oz (yay!)
7:30am - solids
10:30am - bottle 3oz...so here is when I run into trouble.  Since she only took 3oz I have no idea when to feed her next, so I just try to listen to her cues.
1:30pm - was screaming bloody murder so I offered a bottle.  3oz again 

She just takes these 3oz feeds all day long even though I am usually going 4hrs between bottles or more (if it's less it's because she's acted hungry).  Not only do I not have any idea when to feed her, I am throwing out a silly amount of formula every day because I will make a 6oz bottle and she's only taking half.  So now again, no clue when to feed her next.  4:30? 5? 5:30?  Then it pushes her last 2 bottles so close together that she never takes a good BT bottle, so then I'm up feeding her multiple times in the night.

I am just so confused.

[Martini~]

Can you stop feeding be cues and breaks but just set times? We were feeding at that age 7am 6-8os, 11am (but this bottle was usually 3-4oz), 2:30pm another 4-5oz and than 6:30 pm - 6-8oz and nothing at night. I also protected BT feed - with afternoon feed after 3pm he was taking small BT bottle. I know it's hard but if she is eating the minimum so 18oz and doesn't want more I would try to be relaxed.
Usually when I was trying to feed "all-the-time" it ended with a whole day of small feeds, as he did take small portion as he wasn't hungry and than when I feed once again - he took small amount and another feed was small:). DS was having 3 meals per day that time - but I when his appetite went down I was cutting out breakfast as cereals seemed to "block" his appetite for the whole day.

[Lindsay27]

Someone else mentioned set feeding times but I'm not sure how it would work because her WUs vary so much, which means she's napping at a different time each day.  So take the 11am feed for instance...on a day when WU is 5:30 she's likely already done her morning nap by 11 and can feed at that time, but on a day where she's up at 6:30/7am she's likely napping at 11, ya know?  Honestly everything is just a complete mess.  Her feeds, her naps, her nights.  EWs are throwing her whole day for a complete spin so nothing is consistent.

Some days she eats 3 meals a day of solids, others not.  And that is mostly just me trying to gauge whether or not to feed her solids if I think it is going to impact her next bottle.

She ate 3oz at 1:30 and then I went to put her down for a nap around 1:45 and she finished the rest of the bottle then (so 6oz total).  She only napped 30mins so since BT will be early, maybe I will just feed her solids around 4:30 and then hope for a big BT bottle at 6.

[Lindsay27]

Just to update we ended up with:

5:30am - 6oz
10:30 - 3oz
1:30/45 - 6oz
6pm - 7oz

So not too bad, this is actually one of the best days we've had, but I think that was totally dependent on the fact that she didn't take a NF.  Not sure what to do about that going forward...if we should try to drop it.

[Martini~]

Hmmm can you keep that routine wo NF for couple of days? Roughly 4 bottles a day? I think it dodany matter if you feed 10:30 or 11:30 just do one bottle around 11. If it's earlier it can be smaller I guess, so don't stress. I wouldn't be afraid of bottles of 3.5-4.5h apart if you have a small solid meal in between. I would only probably miss/reduce breakfast if she has an EWU bottle so she don't feed too much and refuse totally bottle at 10-11. However my experience was that solids didn't impact so massive milk intake - it was rather a previous bottle which dictates how log the next one will be.

[Lindsay27]

So she actually STTN from 6:15pm-5:30am.  Wowzers.  Here's the thing though, when I tried to feed her at 5:30am she only took 3oz . Why does she do this!? Now again with the guess work.  I am going to assume she can't make it to 10:30/11am on a 3oz bottle after a nearly 12hr night.  But then do I top her up before nap? If I do that she definitely won't take a good feed around 11am.  Or do I hope she can make it to 10:30/11 and sort of reverse what she did yesterday with her first 2 bottles? I don't know.

Jeepers she sure likes to keep me on my toes

[Martini~]

Haha Lindsay - I am expecting a baby in Dec so just waiting on the moment I will be so confused as probably first baby won't be such as the first one:))).

I would do two things. Firstly do not feed at 5:30. I know it seems impossible for you but if she takes only 3oz she doesn't seem hungry at 5:30. Just try to resettle and wait closer to 7am with a feed. As a paradox - resettling in a crib may be a bigger success than takin out for a feed. DS was that kind of a child - he was much better resettled at some age without being taken out from the crib. Secondly from 7am bottle /no matter how much she takes/ I would give small breakfast and still wait until 11am for a next feed. Seems long but she is not a tiny baby so if you do it once - she will be fine and you will see how she goes with that kind of routine. What do you think?

[Lindsay27]

Congrats!! Exciting news!!  I swore I wasn't going to let the 'small stuff' drive me crazy with #2....ha!  Hilarious.

Ya you might be right, I just figured since it had been nearly 12 hours since she last ate she'd be starving, apparently not.  So I fed at 5:30 and she took the 3oz, she had breakfast at 7:30am and down for a nap at 9am.  She wasn't screaming for food so I didn't top her up.  I'm hoping that she makes up for it around 11 and takes a good feed then.  FX!  I did try to resettle her at 5:30am after her feed but that of course didn't work. 

This gives me hope though, I've thought for a while now that she doesn't need a NF since it was usually small anyway, and that with the introduction of solids as long as her routine was good we could drop it.

[Lindsay27]

Ended up with:

5:30 - 3oz
11 - 5oz
3:30 - 6oz
7 - 6oz

So that's about normal, she doesn't have a massive intake and never has.  Steady at 48th percentile from birth.  I say 6oz but it is really more like 7...180mls of water and once I add the formula it increases the volume to 7oz.  And she also ate 3 meals today.  We'll see what happens tonight!

[Martini~]

When you count only water it's 20oz, with milk (as I always counted!!!) it's 22oz. It's above the minimum which is 18oz. If you add 1-3os with a cereal for breakfast or dinner you have 23-25oz which is even better. If she is not waking for more, and refuse more, I wouldn't change much being honest....

Maybe if you give her water and she drinks much I would consider changing that to milk. Wdyt?

[Lindsay27]

She STTN again from 7pm-6am...no wakings and no feeds!  Yay! So I definitely don't think she needs more, I can add some to her cereal (which I have been doing sometimes if I remember) and I have just started giving her a sippy with water in it but she doesn't usually actually drink any she mostly just plays with the cup.  Going to try to keep the same routine going .

[Martini~]

During first year of DS life I was doing cereal only on formula. It was 1-2oz of milk plus cereal plus fresh/purée fruit. And always thought about it as additional portion of milk shoveled into DS. Worth considering to ease your mind:). Only after a year we stopped that and started offering variety of breakfast. Other that that, night looks great:)))! If it's possible I would still not rush with a feed if she is not demanding it, so I she gets up at 6am, she may lay down in her crib (which DS was doing at that age already) and you hold on with feed until 6:30 or 7am, whatever is comfortable for you and her.

[Lindsay27]

I waited until 7am to feed her, she wasn't protesting so I figured she was fine and she took 6oz and I will use the remaining 1oz for her cereal this morning.  She usually eats cereal and fruit for breakfast, veggies and fruit for lunch (if we do lunch) and meat/veggies/fruit for dinner. 

[Martini~]

Tadam!!! 6oz for breakfast:). And the question from thread title solved!!! Yupi yup:)!

Fingers crossed that it will last longer than 3 days LOL:)

[Lindsay27]

I know, I'm like pleassssse don't let this be a stint just to tease me! Lol!

[Lindsay27]

Curious to know how this works with a later WU and 3+ hr A time...

WU 6
E 7am
Solids 8am
S 9:30-11

E 11
Solids 12
S...likely 2:30-3:30/4.  So this pushes that next feed pretty late and the late 2 bottles closer together...?

[Martini~]

At that age /I think closer to 7/8months/ I pushed that 2:30 feed to 1:45/2:00 as if DS took his bottle after 3pm he was not interested in his evening feed. But... Around 7mo we were done with 11am bottle and DS was on 3x8oz (7oz water and formula) feeds.

[Lindsay27]

Ya I'm not so sure how to make it work until she goes down to 3 bottles which I don't expect to happen for another month or so, DS was 8 months I think.  With a 3-3.5hr A time and long-ish naps it makes it hard to squeeze it all in.

The wheels fell off today and nap #2 pretty much didn't happen so I was able to feed at 7-11-3-7 and her intake was decent.  I don't have hope for a good night though, OT doesn't even begin to describe it lol . Poor girl, not her fault...this is payback for carting her around to splash pads, beaches, and pools all day. 

[Lindsay27]

Sorry I am all over you! Lol. The wheels definitely came off last night and I am just looking for a plan for today.  She had a really long NW from 3:45-6am.  I tried to not feed her knowing she wasn't hungry but eventually I was just desperate for any way to get her back to sleep.  So I fed at 5:45am and she took 3oz and was out like a light . She woke for the day at 7:20am so I topped her up with the rest of the bottle.

Now she won't go down for a nap until 10:30ish which means she won't be awake for the 11am bottle and take another feed until around noon...then the next one after that wouldn't be until about 4pm which would absolutely hurt the BT bottle. Or can I arrange this another way?  Ugh, this really messed everything up

[Lindsay27]

Or maybe it would be better to feed her at 10:30 right before nap and expect her to take a smaller bottle, then 2:30pm and BT.  Hmmmm I'm thinking that is a better idea

[Martini~]

Yep! I would go for a second option!

[Lindsay27]

Yesterday was good and she STTN again from 7pm-5:15am, resettled and woke at 7am! It's like a small miracle lol.

So I figure the only way to fit in 4 bottles with these A times is to have 2 closer together, and I don't want it to be the last 2 because I want her to take a good feed before bed.  So this is what I've done today/what I'm thinking, what do you think?  So I have the 11:30 and 2:30/40 bottles closer together.

WU 7
E 7am (7oz) / solids 8am
A
S 10-11:30

E 11:30 (6oz) / solids 12:30pm
A
E 2:40 (4oz)
S 2:45 - ?

A
E - solids 4:30/5pm
E 6:45/7 (hopefully 7oz)
S 7pm

[Martini~]

I would only consider moving lunch a tad later if she is not very interested. 1h after a quite big bottle she might be not interested - wdyt?

[Lindsay27]

Ya okay! She ended up eating lunch fine but it was closer to 12:45pm.

[Lindsay27]

Okay so we've been able to not do the NF for about a week or so now, but even without a NF she is starting to slack again.  This morning she woke at 6am and I fed her at 7am and she only took 3oz (and only took 4oz before bed last night).  Yesterday she only took 16oz total.  Her feeds were:
 
7am - 3oz bottle and 1oz in cereal an hour later
Nap 10:30-12:30
12:30pm - 4oz (long time between feeds as she had a 3.5hr A followed by a 2hr nap)
3:30 - 4oz
Nap 3:45-4:15
7pm - 4oz

If she's not taking a NF and not taking a huge BT bottle, why is she only taking 3oz when she wakes?  I know her 3 bottles yesterday were all 3ish hours apart but with a long A and a long nap there was no other way to do it to get 4 feeds in.

[lolsyb1982]

I think you said she's on 3 meals a day didn't you? How much does she actually eat? Could you cut back on the solids to see if she takes more?

DD2 has also really reduced her milk intake but I remember DD1 doing exactly the same at about this age.

[Lindsay27]

Sometimes we do 3 meals, sometimes not.  It really just kind of depends on the day.  My DS went to 3 bottles at 8 months and it was a long time coming, but yesterday she didn't even hit the minimum amount of ounces in a day.  She took a 2hr nap yesterday and over 2hrs today so I'm wondering if something else is up (though she seems fine).

[Martini~]

Lindsay i will answer in the evening when DS is asleep ok:)?

[Lindsay27]

Yes no worries! She just took a big 7 oz bottle after her marathon nap so I'm happy!

[Martini~]

Sorry that I haven't reply yesterday, but the EURO match was too exciting:).

Soooo... from one side I agree that 16oz is a a bit little, however she doesn't seem concerned if after whole night she takes 3oz If she took 16oz during day and was hungry at 3am I would say - yes do everything to increase intake. Secondly I just remember that DS had periods like that with lower appetite (however he normally took around 25-26oz of milk + 3 solids, so when he was droping to 18oz it was still fine). What worked for me those days was cutting solids to 2 meals or... resigning from cereal for breakfast. When his appetite was fine he was eating 1-2 tbs of cereal for breakfast on milk with fruits. When his appetite was low, this portion made him full for next 6h so I usually gave him 1-2tbs of pure fruir puree or just nothing. I know that most of the BW here would cut the dinner, but I was going with the reco read in some book that dinner is needed to STTN and breakfast should be the last meal to introduce.

Re milk intake - we talk about time and routine... I wonder what about teat flow and temperature of milk. I don't know how hot it's now in Ontario, but if it's hot maybe try to prepare chiller milk? OR change teat-flow for a faster one? Maybe after sometime she is bored with feeding and on the other hand she could deal with a faster flow so she could gulp more? WDYT?

[Lindsay27]

Yes that night she STTN in the 16oz so she clearly wasn't hungry if she didn't wake for a feed.  Given a "regular" day is roughly 20oz give or take it could have just been a low appetite day like you said.  Yesterday she did 3oz for the first feed but the rest were relatively normal.  She also didn't have lunch yesterday.

She is actually already on the fastest flow teat and has been so for over a month at least and we make her bottles room temperature.  I do wonder if sometimes she's bored, she's always wanting to play with her soother or the bottle.  When she's really tired she has a lot of difficulty eating, she flails her hands around, hits herself in the head...it's so odd...feeding to sleep is never an issue because she just flails around so much when she's eating if she's tired,  it's like she wants to settle/fall asleep but can't because she's eating so she gets frustrated.

[Lindsay27]

Curious to know if you think it is too early to drop to 3 bottles? I think I am going to hang onto 4 for a little while longer but I don't think we are far off.  Generally her morning bottle and BT bottle are the largest but the other 2 (roughly 11/11:30 and 2:30/3 timeframe) are kind of hit and miss.  I think generally her avg is 20oz but I think she would still intake the same amount of we did a 7-2:30-6:45 kind of schedule.  She's still STTN with no feeds or NW so her intake is obviously sufficient and she is growing perfectly.

She all out refused her 11am bottle today, tried again at 11:30 and no-go.

[Martini~]

Sorry Linds, i am  on holidays! But no, it's not too early but that's my opinion! At 7mo we were for sure at 3bottles!