At End of Rope - 6.5 Month Old Sleep

[FrankiesMom12]

Hi All - I am completely at the end of my rope with my 6.5 month old. I feel like sleep is getting worse, not better and I'm in tears.  We have several problems, and I'm not even sure where to start.

1. I have never been able to get on a true EASY with her.  She does NOT want to eat when she first gets up, so I feel like our EASY is not achievable right from the start.

2. I can't seem to get her to fall asleep without nursing her.  Every once in awhile I can make it happen, but 9 times out of 10 she nurses to sleep. She will not take a pacifier and also will not suck her fingers.

3. She either wakes up at 4 or 5 to start her day, or will wake up in the middle of the night for 1 - 2 hours.  I nurse her, but then she will not go back to sleep.  To make matters worse, she SCREECHES the ENTIRE TIME.  She's not screaming, but screeching.  It sounds like we have a baby dinosaur in our house.

4. Because I have a 3.5 year old, our days can be somewhat inconsistent.  He goes to school 2 mornings a week, plus I have to do the shopping, etc. I also don't feel like we can stay home everyday without things for him to do.  I do try and get her first nap of the day at home and her mid-day nap at home.  It is not like when I had my son; however, and I could try to always be home for naps.

Since We have a 3.5 year old, it is how I got into the habit of nursing to sleep.  It was just so much quicker, and I didn't have to leave him alone as long.  I'm the only one who tries to get her to nap sleep including at night.  I'm truly, truly at my wits end and even willing to hire a sleep trainer to help.  Does anyone have advice???

Here are some sample days:
5:00 - awake
5:25 - nurse
5:40 - pd awake
6:00 - got up for day
7:30 - nurse / asleep
8:25 - awake happy
10:45 - nurse / asleep
12:25 - awake happy
1:30 - eat solids
2:55 - nurse / asleep
3:15 - awake happy
5:00 - eat solids
6:40 - nurse / asleep for night
2:30 - nurse / awake
2:30 - 4:00 - awake and screeching, tried nursing twice, finally asleep at 4
6:45 - awake for day

I have literally spent the last 2 hours trying to get her to take her first nap of the day which means she has been awake for over 3 hours.

Thanks!!!!  -Jen

[Lindsay27]

Hi hun!  Sorry you are struggling, I know how hard it can be, but not to worry we will get it all sorted out!  My DD is a little over 6 months as well and I also have a 4 year old so I completely get where you are coming from

I have literally spent the last 2 hours trying to get her to take her first nap of the day which means she has been awake for over 3 hours.

This is actually the first thing that jumps out at me, I think her A times are on the low side which is why you are struggling to get her to nap.  My DD is currently doing a 3.15hr A time so I think the fact that she was awake for over 3hrs is actually a good thing, and it really does mean that she wasn't ready to sleep before then.  If she's up for the day at 6am I would try to have her first nap around 10am - this will also mean that she'll be able to get onto a 2-nap routine vs 3 naps, which might be affecting her night sleep.  Also with a 3+ hr A time I find it generally easy to be able to go and do groceries/errands and be back home in time for nap.  That said, I generally try to have the first nap at home in the crib and then if she has a car nap in the afternoon or whatever she can generally manage ok.

Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!

My DD also won't take a feed when she first wakes either, so what we end up with is an AEAS routine which is okay too.  So something like:

WU 6:30am
A
E 7:30 - bottle
E 8:30 - solids
A
S 9:45am for 1.5hrs

I think once  you push those A times you will find that she may be able to fall asleep without nursing because she'll be tired enough.

What do you think?

[FrankiesMom12]

Thanks Lindsay!  It helps to just have a plan.  The night wake-up is killing me.  Of course, tomorrow I have a doctor's appt, so I won't be able to do her nap in bed, but I will focus on it Wednesday.  When you say sleep at 9:45 for your daughter, how far in advance of that do you put her down?  Also, what time does she go down for bed at night?  Thanks again!!!

[Lindsay27]

I usually only leave 5-10 mins for her to settle.  I sometimes just hold her and singto her for a few mins until she's drowsy before putting her down.  It doesn't take long for her to fall asleep because she's plenty tired by then . Sometimes you might notice that they show tired "signs" earlier, however these can often be misleading...often they just need a change in stimulation/activity.

[FrankiesMom12]

Hi Lindsay - thanks for the advice, I think overall things are better.  The last few mornings she's slept until at least 6 am; however, we are having a lot of night wakings.  Is she maybe just going through a sleep regression/growth spurt?  I opted to try not giving her solids dinner last night, but that didn't seem to help.  (She's only up to solids about 2 times a day right now.)  I know I'm sometimes getting her down a bit later at night than I should be, our evenings are kind of intense.  DH has been getting home from work later than normal, which is making dinner a bit of a disaster.  Our son has also been one heck of a handful in the evenings lately.  I'm on my own for dinner and bedtime tonight, so who knows how it will go this evening!!!

Here has been the last few days:

6/20 (this was the day I posted initially)
2:30 - nurse
2:45 - pd awake
3:45 - nurse (she never went to sleep)
4:00 - pd awake; fell asleep at some point
6:45 - awake
7:20 - nurse
8:15 - solids
8:40 - 10:00 - tried to pd for nap; did pu/pd untl 10, when she finally fell asleep nursing - this is where you mentioned I wasn't giving her enough A time.
10:00 - nurse to sleep
11:40 - awake happy
1:00 - nurse
2:25 - 2:45 - tried to pd for nap; every time I put her down would SCREAM
2:45 - nurse to sleep
3:40 - awake very fussy
7:10 - nurse and fell asleep
8:10 - awake screaming
8:15 - 8:35 - pu/pd/finally rocked to sleep
9:40 - awake screaming/I put more clothes on her in case she was cold
9:45 - nursed to sleep

6/21
1:20 - nurse / asleep nursing
6:30 - awake for the day
6:45 - nurse (not well)
7:30 - nurse (ate well)
8:45 - 9:00 (fell asleep in car dropping son off at school)
10:45 - 11:00 - (fell alseep in car picking son up from school)
11:15 - nurse
12:45 - solids
1:40 - nurse
1:45 -3:15 - asleep
4:45 - solids
6:30 - nurse
6:40 - asleep
9:05 - awake screaming; asleep within moments of picking her up

6/22
3:20 - awake
3:30 - nurse
3:50 - pd awake, fell asleep on her own at some point
6:3 0 -awake
7:10 - nurse
8:15 - solids
9:25 - nurse
9:30 - 10:20 - asleep
12:30 - 12:40 - fell asleep in my arms (this was an accident, we were at our lake and I was holding her in the water while my son played.)
1:30 - nurse
2:35 - nursed to sleep
4:15 - awake
6:50 - nurse
6:55 - asleep
8:10 - awake screaming
8:10 - 8:55 - tried to do pu/pd, usually started screaming once I put her down
8:55 - nurse to sleep

6/23
3:10 - awake playing in crib
3:40 - nurse
3:50 - 6:00 - asleep
6:00 - 6:15 nurse / sleep
6:15 - awake for the day

[Lindsay27]

6:45 - awake
7:20 - nurse
8:15 - solids
8:40 - 10:00 - tried to pd for nap; did pu/pd untl 10, when she finally fell asleep nursing - this is where you mentioned I wasn't giving her enough A time.

Just want to make sure I'm reading you correctly...she woke at 6:45am and you attempted first nap at 8:40am and it took her until 10am to fall asleep?  If this is the case, then she was absolutely UT for the first nap.  If she woke at 6:45am I would even attempt a nap before 9:45/10am.

[FrankiesMom12]

Hi Lindsay - yes, that was what prompted you to suggest to me earlier this week to push up her a time closer to 3 hours.  I was more posting that day to show her frequent night waking that night.  Unless she falls asleep inadvertently in the car, etc. I've been trying to move her a time out.

[Lindsay27]

How did today go?

Frequent NW early in the the evening/after BT are usually due to OT.

[FrankiesMom12]

Hi Lindsay - we stayed home today, and I just decided to bite the bullet and not nurse her to sleep anymore.  I think all things considered, it went really well.  She was up from about 3:55 - 4:30 thus morning  (I did opt to nurse her to sleep at 4:30).  From there, our day looked like this:

10:25 - 11:05 - Nap 1 (I held her to sleep for this nap)
1:30 - pd down for sleep, some fussing and crying but asleep on own
1:45 - 3:15 - asleep
6:50 - pd awake
7:15 - 7:30 - fussy that escalated to screaming
7:30 - checked on her, changed a poopy diaper
7:40 - pd awake
7:50 - asleep on her own

I'm interested to see how often she wakes up tonight, most nights for the last few weeks she's woken up around 3 times.  Sometimes as many as 4.  She's working on sitting up and started to crawl a bit today, so I think that's been part of the problem.  She's waking up because she's working on it in her sleep.

Anyway, the one thing I wasn't sure if is how long do you recommend between waking up from her last nap and bedtime?  I think I might be stretching her too long then, but this is the time I struggle with most to get her down in a timely manner due to dinner, my husband's work schedule, and my 3 year old.  Thanks!

[Lindsay27]

Wow great job!!  My DD is sitting up now but for a week or 2 there she was trying all sorts of crazy shenanigans in her sleep

Yes I would definitely say the A time to bed is too long, I think when she was fussing at 7:15 she was already OT by then.  If she woke from nap at 3:15 I would say BT no later than 7pm.  Often my DD is in bed as early as 6:30.  I know how chaotic that time of night can be, my DH gets home at 6 and I try to have dinner ready for as soon as he's home so we can all eat together, but many night he doesn't see DD much . But that's just how it is right now, he spends solo time alone with her on Saturday mornings when he lets me sleep in!

[FrankiesMom12]

She only woke up once last night, I nursed her, and then she went to sleep on her own!  AND, she didn't wake up until 6:30 today!  Hurray! 

Today, we won't be able to be as consistent about naps, so we'll see how it goes!

[Lindsay27]

Yay!! Fabulous!! Yes weekends are all over the map for us as well.  I try to let her have 1 good nap at home and the rest are usually in the car/out and about.

[FrankiesMom12]

Hi Lindsay - if you have a super short nap that throws your day off, when do you put your daughter down again?  Catie took a 15 minute nap from 12:45 - 1:00, and I haven't been able to get her down again today. I tried at about 2, so I'm guessing that was too soon.  Now, (at 3:30) she's acting wack-a-do, so I think she's OT.  Thanks!

[Lindsay27]

Yes she's probably OT.  Can to try to AP a nap to get her though to BT? Car or stroller, something like that?

[FrankiesMom12]

Yup!  Will try now.  What is the latest I should let her sleep until to avoid issues at bed?