Thanks for your reply. If you don't mind, I'd like to respond to a few of your points?
Not sure when it is you are returning to work and want this routine in place by
I return to work in 3 weeks, but I'm not necessarily looking for a quick fix solution. I just meant that *eventually* (however long it takes), that's the routine that would be ideal to work around child care etc when I am working. I'm happy for a quick fix or a long term method.
Looking over your previous thread I see a couple of things. Bec suggested moving the nap gradually out, 15 mins every few days, until you reached 10am. Later in the thread you had some success with the WU time improving and a more consistent routine with that first nap coming at 9am - however looking now, it is approx 1 month since that suggestion, nap is still at 9am and WU time has moved earlier again rather than later. To me this is consistent with the advice given that LO needs that first nap to come much later to encourage better night sleep, a later Wu time and a later BT.
It can be super hard to shift a nap time (and BT) and really the only way is to grit your teeth and get on with it.
It *can* be done in the space of a week if you are ready to go for it. It is pretty much the same as shifting a baby's body clock for the annual clock changes.
If you look at your current routine you could shift everything 1hr by doing 15 min different each day. When you reach the 1hr change if you see no change to the EW/WU you go on another 15 and another. Totalling 1hr 30 overall time change which should really help to move that WU time. Once the WU time shifts and settles you can then bring back the nap time ever so slowly (from 10.30 to 10am in 5 or 10 min increments so that the later WU time is maintained).
Yes, Bec did advise this, you're right. I have not ignored that advice but it has proved incredibly difficult to shift that nap. I can manage to get him to 09:15 some days but then other days, like a few days ago for instance, he fell asleep at 09:00 whilst he was playing. I have continually worked on trying to get his nap to at least 09:30. I was also advised, I can't remember by who, to try set nap times of 9am and 2pm. So I have tried to stick to that for a couple of weeks while we dealt with hourly NWs. Now he has started sleeping 9-10hours at night with no waking, I came back to seek advice as I feel in a better position.
I will continue to try and shift his nap later. But as I've said in my previous post - doing this tends to result in a catnap and therefore the next WU remains the same. The last couple of days, since my post, he has been waking at 4:00 and I am unable to resettle him without co-sleeping. This is a habit that I have not long broken and I am struggling with what to do at this time.
Another thing, looking at your LO's history and the proposed routine. The BT would realistically need to be much later. A LO who never sleeps longer than 10.5hrs over night is unlikely to change IME. Mine was the same and certainly we had the odd longer night after a nap drop or during illness but really he maintained his night length and no amount of tweaking a routine would do anything to help that. I would say then that if you want a 6am WU you will need to look at 8pm BT. If he starts to do longer nights then great, that can be worked in as needed.
I had thought a BT of 7:30 might be a good start. Good to know that 10hours over night isn't out of the ordinary. I have been told he *should* be sleeping 12 hours. It's nice to have it validated that he may just need less than this and to work around it rather than trying to extend.
(in some of your posts it is unclear if your LO has a 30 min cycle or a 40 min or 45 min, you might not know and it is not always easy to tell).
It genuinely seems to change! But I would say it's now more often than not around the 40-45min mark.
so my suggestion would be to teach him to stay asleep for that third cycle for at least one nap per day (which I think would be more suitable for your 9 months old who I think has an adjusted age of 8 months).
Your routine might look something like this, although obviously it is only guidance.
WU 6
A 4hr
S 10 - 11.30
A 4hr
S 3.30 - 4.30
A 3hr 30
BT 8
or without extending the nap length something like this:
WU 6
A 4
S 10 - 11
A 4
S 3 -4
A 4
BT 8
Would you suggest lengthening the morning nap over the afternoon nap then? I had wondered which nap should be longer, if any. I'll give this first routine a shot and if the naps don't seem to be working I'll have a look at your second example.
Even when I have successfully lengthened his naps, it rarely results in anything longer than 1hr 15mins.
I also struggle with more than 3.5hours after that last nap. At the minute I do 3h45-4hours and he has started refusing his final bottle and getting very agitated and eventually I have to just put him down in his cot, where he rolls around for 15mins before crying and then deciding that he'll take his bottle and then sleep properly.
might need to shush/pat throughout the naps to help your LO shift this
This is where I am currently seeing a challenge. I used to sssh/pat through his naps to get him through a second cycle- this worked well, although it never worked for a third cycle. He then began taking longer naps independently and I would only need to resettle him for one nap a day, sometimes neither. Then, coincidentally maybe, since he's started sleeping 9hours TTN, most of his naps have returned to one cycle and ssssh/pat doesn't seem to work. He'll have the odd nap where he sleeps 1-1h15 but most of the time he's awake after 40mins. I've tried W2S, I've tried hovering over him until he stirs and sssh/pat (which is what worked before) and I've tried leaving him for a couple of mins to self settle (as he is able to do this at night). None of which seem to be making a difference.
