Beginning EASY for my 9 week old.. help!

[amazering]

So we’ve started to follow EASY for my 9 week old but after waking from his nap and eating he gets sleepy soon after. Total time awake I’d say is roughly 40-45 minutes before he starts to yawn and needs to be put back down for his next nap. Since he doesn’t stay awake long enough, it’s starting to run into the problem where he wakes up and it’s not time to eat yet. And then he yawns after being up for that 40-45 minutes (sometimes it’s 30 minutes even) to which we’re supposed to put him to bed because of the sleep cues... but by that point it’s like 10 or so mins away from his next feed... we don’t want to not feed him obviously but we also don’t want an overtired baby because he didn’t go down at his cues... help!!!

[creations]

Hello and welcome to BW forums

How long is LO napping for?  If you have good length naps then the feed routine should fit in relatively well, it is okay to have a little time awake before eating if LO isn't yet hungry.  If the naps are short it might be that you can help to extend his naps by starting shush/pat before he wakes and helping him transition from one sleep cycle to the next.
As you are getting to know how the routine is going for your LO at the moment you will likely be able to see when the E and S times are about to clash, in those cases I'd feed early with enough time to get the feed finished (how ever long that takes for your LO) and to try to avoid feeding to sleep as a habit.
It could be that your LO is still in a very sleepy phase and quite soon will "wake up" a bit more and you'll see those A times extend some which makes the routine a bit easier.

[amazering]

He naps for about an hour, and if we’re lucky he’ll nap for up to two (which hasn’t happened in a few days).  We’ve been trying the shh pat method but he’s very resistant to it and a lot of the time we spend 40-60 minutes shh patting, to where he’ll fall asleep but then wake up about 10 min later. He either wakes up and is wide eyed and cooing or he cries And then we have to pick him up and calm him before putting him back down for the pat shh. But most of the time he fussed or cries when we try to put him down.  Could it be that we’re misreading his yawns around the half hour mark where he’s been awake and we’re putting him down way too early?

[amazering]

It’s to the point where he wakes up, with about an hour or so left before he should be fed. Then we keep him up until he starts yawning, and that’s still leaving about 15-20 min before his next feed by the time he’s getting tired. Should we just keep him awake anyway? He will not eat unless he’s hungry, he refuses the bottle when he doesn’t want it. If he accepts the bottle sooner than the 3 hour mark should we try it even though that’s about 2-2.5 hours after he last ate? Sometimes we go to put him back down and fusses (hasn’t been fed since still too soon) and he basically cries with us trying to put him back down into his next feed time at that point. That puts us at feeding and then sleeping which we try to avoid but can’t seem to 😞

[amazering]

And most of the time he’s done with his bottle within 8 or so minutes. He eats very quickly.

[creations]

Are you shush/patting in arms or in the cot? At what point are you putting him down into the cot? Awake, drowsy, asleep?
After he falls asleep you need to shush/pat to deep sleep which is about 20 mins after nodding off so perhaps you can try this over the next few days. it's common for babies to wake after 10 mins if they are not in deep sleep.

I would feed at 2.5hrs if needed.

30 or even 45 mins is a very short awake time. Could you record your EASY times tomorrow and post them so I can see exactly what is happening please? Record the actual times things happen rather than what you were aiming for.

[amazering]

5/22
S- 10:25p(end of 5/21)-12:49a
E- 12:53a
S- 1:30-5:28a
E- 5:30a
S- 6:10-8:05
E- 8:07a
A- Played till 8:50a
S- 8:59a-11:17a (spent 20 min putting him down and then he woke 25 min later at approx 9:45, put him back to sleep)
E- 11:20a
A- Played till 12:05p
S- 12:10-2:13
E- 2:15
A- Played till 3 (started yawning at 2:45 but I kept him up till he got started to get fussy 15 min later)
S- 3:08-4:39
E- 4:50
A- Up for a total of an hour, Played before and after eating
S- 5:40-7:13
E- 7:25
A- Up for 53 min (bath time before bed also) before getting fussy
S- 8:18-11:41p
E- 11:42p (we haven’t started dream feeding yet, we were trying to figure out his EASY schedule first)

—Feels like this day was just a fluke it went so well.  We started using a white noise app because shushing for long periods of time was making us light headed as prior days we would be shushing for almost an hour.  We used it just long enough to help him fall asleep and then slowly lowered the volume until it was off—

5/23
S- 12:01a-2:54
E- 2:55a
S- 3:39-655a
E- 6:58a
A- Roughly 45 min before the yawns
S- 7:43-9:18 (Spent about 30 min with him to make sure he was down, woke up after being down for 40 min. Put him back to sleep)
E- 9:46 (was fussy/crying for almost a half hour but wouldn’t take the bottle until this point he started making cues)
A- Up for about 50 min (started yawning around 10:15, kept him up for another 15 before the yawns were continually one after the other)
S- 10:35-12:48 (woke up an hour after being put down. Put him back to sleep)
E- 12:28
A- Played for about 55 min before going down
S- 1:30-2:57 (stayed with him for about 30 min, and 40 mins into sleeping woke up. Put him back to sleep... woke up again at 2:25. Put him back to sleep again)
E- 3:28
A- Up for about an hour, put him down at 3:57
S- 4:03-6:49 (35 min into sleeping he woke up again, a few min after turning the white noise off. Which seemed to be the same issue if we stopped shushing.  Put him back down, left white noise on the entire nap time and he stayed asleep the entire duration)
E- 6:53p
A- Up for about an hour 15 or hour 20 (including bath time) went down around 8:15-8:20
S- 8:29p-11:26p
E- 11:28p
S- 12:06-3:06a (5/24 at this point)
E- 3:06a
 


We start off with the same routine- swaddling, saying goodnight to everyone in the same order, singing the same song, then holding for a maximum of 5 mins, or if his eyes start getting drowsy beforehand. We pat while holding and begin the white noise, then set him down and pat.  Gonna try keeping the white noise on during the times he’s asleep since that seems to be the only way to keep him asleep and not wake up, and using white noise almost instantly has him calm compared to us trying to shush him.

Should I just keep him up for a minimum of an hour unless he starts getting fussy sooner?  I definitely feel like half our problem is we probably had him undertired and that’s why he woke up so many times or was so resistant at some points this last week.  We’ve had him overtired and as you know it’s very difficult to console him and have him sleep well.  I’m just worried about getting him overtired by accident and having to deal with an overly fussy baby.

Also, there was one point on the 23rd where he almost slept for 3 hours. My husband didn’t want to wake him and felt it was best to let him sleep.  If the baby starts sleeping better with the white noise, should. I just let him sleep as long as he wants?  Or should I wake him up 2 hours in or 3 hours into a nap?

I’ve been logging for about a week now and we can’t seem to get him into a routine. EAS is incredibly sporadic right now.  I’m sure some of it is due to OT/UT and not understanding how to differentiate. I hate feeling like I’m ready to pull my hair out because I’m not sleeping.  Husband works and we have no family in the state to come help out.  I resume work in two weeks and fear we’re not going to get this down for him.

[amazering]

Today we’re having the issue where he wakes up 40-45 mins in and no matter what we do he won’t go back to sleep.

[creations]

It looks to me like he is doing best on about 1hr 20 A time, this doesn't necessarily mean he goes to sleep and stays asleep without help, he does ned help as he is so young and at times will need putting back to sleep, but overall I think you are seeing better nap lengths or easier to resettle on the this time.

S- 10:35-12:48 (woke up an hour after being put down. Put him back to sleep)
E- 12:28
A- Played for about 55 min before going down
S- 1:30-2:57 (stayed with him for about 30 min, and 40 mins into sleeping woke up. Put him back to sleep... woke up again at 2:25. Put him back to sleep again)

Here for example it looks to me like he was only awake for approx 40 min.  You said he played for 55 min but it looks like he was awake from 12.48 - 1.30, only 40 min. This is likely far too short and could be why he woke at 40 min.

I would leave the white noise on throughout the nap if it's helping. It's no considered a prop because you don't have to go back for it, just leave it.

At this age I wouldn't let him sleep too long past his E time.  3hrs is okay for sleep if it's a one off perhaps but generally a nap would be up to 2hrs.  You really don't want a day nap to be more than 3hrs as this starts looking like the "long stretch" you want to get at night.

It looks like you're doing really well. The nap lengths are good even with resettling so I'd just continue really and the routine will gradually settle over time.

[amazering]

S- 10:35-12:48 (woke up an hour after being put down. Put him back to sleep)
E- 12:28
A- Played for about 55 min before going down
S- 1:30-2:57 (stayed with him for about 30 min, and 40 mins into sleeping woke up. Put him back to sleep... woke up again at 2:25. Put him back to sleep again)

Here for example it looks to me like he was only awake for approx 40 min.  You said he played for 55 min but it looks like he was awake from 12.48 - 1.30, only 40 min. This is likely far too short and could be why he woke at 40 min.

Here he had woken at 12:28 not 12:48. 

Today’s EASY looks completely different.  He was impossible to settle today and did not nap well.  I feel like we start making headway into figuring out his routine and then we have awful days like this again.

5/24
S- 12:06-3:06a
E- 3:07a
S- 3:39-6:34 (woke up at 4:36 and resettled)
E- 6:35
S- 7:05-9:15
E- 9:17
A- Up for about 50 min before winding down and settling
S- 10:17-11a (nothing I did would resettle him)
E- 11:03 (seemed like he was giving hunger cues as he hardly ate at 9:17)
A- Up for just under an hour before settling
S- 12:09-1:40p
E- 2:18p
A- Had been up for about an hour
S- 2:44-3:28
S- 4:40-5:15 (finally got him back to sleep, had to stay in the room patting the entire time)
E- 5:39
A- Yawning after about 40 min or so
S- 6:25-6-44
S- 7:19-7:53
E- 8:15
A- Bath time after eating. Was yawning and starting to fuss about 45 min in. I’m assuming because he was now OT
S- 9:02-12:24
-we did attempt to dream feed but he wouldn't take the bottle-

So my next question is do we make him stay up an hour 20 even if he seems sleepy?  And we would include part of that awake time with the time it takes for him to unwind and then settle into sleep?  Maybe we’re misreading cues and being overly paranoid about him getting overtired that we’re causing nap time issues. 

[creations]

Yes, I'd go for the 1hr 20.

The A time is everything that LO is awake including feeding and winding down, the S time is from when LO actually nods off to when LO wakes up.
So for example:

WU (wake up) 7am
E 7
A 1hr 20
S 8.20 - 9.50 (1hr 30)
E 10
A 1hr 20
S 11.10 - 12.40 (1hr 30)
E 1pm
and so on

The thing is, at this age, not every day is going to be perfect, possibly not any day will be perfect but you should start to get into something of a rhythm over time so that the day is more predictable for both you and LO.

[amazering]

So the last two days we’ve been keeping him up for the hour 20 and it does seem to be helping his nap times... until about 4 or 5. And then for the rest of the evening we have issues either putting him down or keeping him asleep long enough.. should we keep his naps to an hour 30?  As of right now they differ in length. Two 2 hours, an hour or hour and a half randomly. And then the last nap before he wakes for bedtime lasts maybe 45, if we can even put him to sleep to begin with. I feel like maybe he’s sleeping too much? But I also don’t want to be assuming the wrong thing and wake him before he should be up.

[amazering]

5/25

E 12:25a
S 12:58-4:50 (woke up at 2:55 and resettled)
E 4:52a
S 5:25-7:44a
E 7:47a
A Up for an hour 26, pooped as we were settling him
S 9:15-10:41a
E 10:50a
A Up for about 40 min...husband accidentally put him back to sleep to early (I was napping so he didn’t realize what he did lol)
S 11:32-12:23p (wouldn’t resettle)
E 1:30p
A Up for an hour 20
S 1:50-3:43p
E 4:06p
A Up for an hour 17
S 5-5:49p (would not resettle)
E 6:04p
A Up for an hour and a half ish... took a bit to get him to sleep
S 7:20-8p
E 9p
A Did our bath/bedtime routine. Didn’t keep him up longer because we felt he ended up in OT territory
S 10-12:46

5/26

E 12:49a
S 1:08-5:46a
E 5:47a
S 6:25-7:30a
E 8:19a
A Up for an hour 21
S 8:51-11:15a ( slept for roughly 2.5 hours.. DH felt he needed to catch up on sleep from last night)
E 11:37a
A Up for an hour and 8 mins
S 12:45-2:22p (resettled 45 min in)
E 2:26p
A Up for an hour and 6 min
S 3:28-5:31p (resettled about an hour 15 in)
E 5:52p
A Tried laying him down after an hour 20 but wouldn’t fall asleep.. until he finally did for only 20 min
S 7:43-8:04p
E 8:49p
A Did bath/night routine. Tried to lay him down about an hour and 10 in but he refused to fall asleep until 9:41
S 9:41-currently still asleep (resettled at 11:49)

After typing everything out I do see we failed a couple of times at keeping him up for the full hour 20 (probably bad math on our part) but my question is still, should we aim to wake him after an hour 30 so he gets his 6 hours in during the day? Or should we just allow him to sleep but wake him if it’s approaching the 2 hour mark? He just turned 10 weeks today. Also, when we go and resettle him, we should wait the full 20 min correct? Regardless of whether he woke from a nap or randomly through the night or when I put him back down from a middle of the night feed?

Sorry for so much posting.  I feel like I’m bugging so much lol.  First time mom and I really appreciate all of the feedback!!

[creations]

It looks like you are getting great nap lengths and that the routine is working really well considering how young your LO is and also that you have only been following EASY a relatively short time.  It might not feel easy and I realise you are struggling a bit in the evenings but you really are doing great.

OK, a couple of things.  When you record your EASY times:
- can you begin with the morning WU time and mark it WU (wake up) so that it is easier for us to see where your day starts.
- can you mark the end of the day and the beginning of night sleep with BT (bed time) so that we can see when you are settling LO down for the night rather then a nap.
- A time includes ALL activity from the moment LO wakes to the moment LO is asleep.  Some of your A times look like they are miscalculated because they are being timed from when LO eats rather than when LO wakes up from the nap, here's an example:

S 8:51-11:15a ( slept for roughly 2.5 hours.. DH felt he needed to catch up on sleep from last night)
E 11:37a
A Up for an hour and 8 mins
S 12:45-2:22p (resettled 45 min in)

LO was awake from 11.15am to 12.45am this is 1hr 30 rather than 1hr 8.  The difference in time at this age is quite significant.
I actually think you are doing better with the slightly longer A times of 1hr 20 or 1hr 30 although it is a bit longer than the guidance time for age but looking at your routine it seems to work well for you. So you put LO to sleep at quite a good time but the EASY record is misleading as it looks like 1hr 8.

Unsettled in the evening.
The difficulty you are having in the evening is quite common, have you heard of "the witching hour"?  basically lots of LOs tend to stay awake too long, act unsettled and cry etc in the evening hours before BT and often it is hard to get them to nap too.  It's generally much more than 1hr of this issue too.  This means just do your best, although I also notice that your are running BT extremely late so bringing it signification earlier could help.
Looks like your morning WU time is around 7.30/7.45am.  WE aim for  roughly a 12hr day and 12hr night so based on WU BT should be around 7.30pm ish.   I would suggest you begin your bed time routine directly after a nap that ends at around 6pm (it might be 5.30pm and BT is a bit earlier or it might be a nap ends at 6.30 so BT is a bit later, that's ok).  Roughly 6pm ish you go through your routine of E, bath, nappy, pjs, E and into bed for the night.  By then it will be around 7.30pm and LO will have had around 1hr 20 or 1hr 30 A time.

Nap length
I would leave the nap lengths as they are naturally at this point.  It's true that sometimes we suggest waking baby to get into a more stable routine but actually your routine is going really well.  The longer nap lengths are great for habit forming.  If you wake baby from every nap there is a risk of OT build up and also it teaches LO not to nap longer....and further down the line you might wish baby was able to nap longer.  It is particularly good news if your LO is sleeping these 1hr 30 - 2hr+ naps independently with just some help to get to sleep and then being able to transition from one cycle to the next on his own.
If there is any problem with weight gain then you would have to make sure you didn't go past a feed time.
Whilst naps are going so well this could be a good time to gently reduce the amount of help at the start of the nap, it's not that you stop helping, just gradually reduce aiming for LO to nod off alone, this helps for future independent sleeping.

Also, when we go and resettle him, we should wait the full 20 min correct? Regardless of whether he woke from a nap or randomly through the night or when I put him back down from a middle of the night feed?

Sorry I don't know what you are referring to here.  What is it you are waiting 20 min for?

Sorry for so much posting.  I feel like I’m bugging so much lol.  First time mom and I really appreciate all of the feedback!!

Don't worry, you are not posting too much.  We're here to help
You are not bugging me or anyone else in the community, we are here because we have had help in the past and like to support others who are going through similar.  You never know, not long from now you might also be "paying it forward" and offering your support and experience to other new mums and dads   Sometimes just having someone else to listen and hold a hand and know we are not alone is what is needed.

I am also a first time mum.  I started EASY when my DS was 4.5wks old after reading a baby whisperer book and I found these forums when he was around 4 months old. I've been here pretty much daily ever since

[amazering]

5/27

S 9:41p (5/26) - 12:54a (resettled at 11:49) (3.13hrs slept)
E 12:56a
S 1:18-4:33a (3.15 hrs slept)
E 4:35a
S 5:08-7:35a (WU)
E 8:35a (DH said he refused the bottle up until this point)
A Up for an hour and 12
S 8:47-10:36a (2.27 hrs slept)
E 11:34a
A Up for an hour 19
S 11:55-2:33p (1.49 hrs slept)
E 3:44p (refused the bottle again up until this point)
A Up for an hour 31 because he finally wanted to eat right before we started getting ready to put him down
S 4:04-4:50p (wouldn’t resettle) (46 min slept)
E 6:15p
A Up for an hour 46.. took a while to get him to fall asleep. Did bath/evening routine around 5:30 or so
S 6:36-7:45p (attempted BT because his short naps threw off the times a bit) (59 min slept)
E n/a
A Up for 30 min before getting him back to sleep
S 8:15-10:59p (2.44 hrs slept)
E 11p
S 11:37-3:36a (3.59 hrs slept)

5/28

E 3:37a
S 4:05-7:05a (resettled at 6) (WU) (3 hrs slept)
E 7:10a
A Up for an hour 19
S 8:29-10:53a (2.24 hrs slept)
E 11a
A Up for an hour and 6 minutes, was very sleepy the last few mins and fell asleep in my arms regardless of us trying to keep him awake
S 11:59-12:44p (45 min slept, would not resettle)
E Refused the bottle
A Up for an hour 29... took a while to get him to sleep
S 2:13-2:29p (16 min slept, would not stay asleep)
E 2:43p (only drank about half the bottle)
A Up for 59 min
S 3:28-4:12p (44 min slept, would not resettle)
E Refused the bottle
A  Up for an hour 44... took a while to get him to sleep
S 5:56-6:38p (42 min slept, would not resettle)
E 6:45p
A Up for an hour 19
S 8:04-currently sleeping (BT) (woke up at 9, resettled)

When he only naps for 45 min, do we still aim to keep him awake for the 1.20 mark?  Or if he seems OT from a short nap, do we still try and keep him up?  Or should we try and put him down sooner if he wakes up 45 mins in regardless of whether he seems OT or not?

Not sure why he kept refusing the bottle today.  He normally only does that if we try to feed him too early and he’s not ready to eat.  He normally doesn’t refuse after 3 hours, especially 4 hours (first time he’s gone that long not eating apart from overnight). 

We are aiming to try and move his bedtime to accommodate the 7/7:30p area but when he naps poorly it makes it really difficult, which is why previously we were doing BT stuff around 8 or 9 some nights. 

I know he’s just a little baby and not every day will be perfect but I feel like today has been a rough one.  At this point we had no idea if he’s OT or UT throughout the day. Though I’m assuming eventually he became OT.

Is there anything we can do about the witching hour?  As of right now me and DH just go back and forth trying to put him back down after he’s woken up and been up for a while to try and preserve our sanity lol

I am noticing the last couple days, throughout his sleeping during the night he’s been waking up about 2 hours in or so and needs to be resettled.  Not sure if there’s any significance to it, but he used to slee straight through until he woke up hungry.  Could this be because he’s not napping as well throughout the day?  Or that he’s having problems transitioning? 

And the 20 mins I was referring to was how long it takes them to fall asleep.  Is it the same for when they’ve woken from sleep and need to be resettled, or after feeding him and putting him back down, that you need to wait out the 20 minutes like you would have done when they went down initially?