2-1 woes

[eva026]

The title says it all... I can’t fit 2 naps in and keep a decent BT.
Her A is now 4.15h I’m slowly pushing it out as we have been having ew that I need to resettle every day. Although not sure if that’s because I need an A bump or because the cn brings us too close to BT.

Nf 1.30am, 5am
Ew 6am - resettled
7.30am WU
11.45 s
13.30 WU
5.15 cn
5.45 WU
BT 8.15 with lots of crying and apop

I can shift BT to 8.30 but that cuts time with dd1. I usually sit her at the tv while I put the baby to sleep then at 8 we have some time together and she’s in bed by 8.30 for s book and asleep by 9.
With the baby going to bed at 8.30 she gets no mommy time.
Any idea what to do? Waking her early is also a problem because she has started nursery and can’t sleep there so I pick her up at 11.30 when I get in from work. .
I can’t see a solution to the later BT besides explaining to DD1 that it won’t last long and ride it out. But what do you think the ew is from?

[eva026]

Oh, and she’s 11mo on the 10th

[creations]

I think explaining to DD1 that the usual evening routine might be disturbed for a month would be a good idea.  She's old enough to understand the idea of LO now needing something that she already got when she was that age, a different routine which messes things up for a little while. Maybe try to find a time you can spend with her a bit earlier on before you try to put DD2 down for the night? Even though it's not 1:1 time it might help?
Maybe also explain that once the CN is dropped DD2 will likely go to bed earlier which will give you extra time with DD!?

Have you tried going without the CN yet?
Or a shorter CN of say 15 min?

The waking and needing to be resettled sounds like a bit of OT to me although tbh I can't really say where I think it's coming from other than just the need to drop the CN and link that sleep with her long nap and night instead of having it broken.   It may be possible to drop the CN on 4.5hr A if you can get a 2hr nap and 11hr night.

[eva026]

I’ll have a chat with DD1 today. Do you think a month is enough to drop the cn? It’s hard to find time for her with the baby around. I’m by myself most evenings so after preschool it’s just a juggle to make dinner, bath both and get them in bed at a decent time, all with a baby hanging off me. DD2 is very clingy.
We went without the cn on the zoo day and she was fine. Tried for a ebt but she only fell asleep at her usual time.
Last night she slept badly and I’ve just put her down at 4hA.
What you said has got me thinking, maybe she’s been waking from OT and I’m making it worse by expecting her to last 4.5h in the morning?

You say one nap is possible on a 4.5a eg:
7.30 WU
12-2 nap
Then what? Because for a 12h night that’s an a of 5.5h till BT.
 
Hate these nap drops.

[creations]

No it could be an 11hr night initially and possibly extending, it's possible to get 13hr overnight for a time.  Some increase night length as soon as day sleep is reduced but some don't.  Then again, some increase the nap to 3hrs.  Or drop the CN see how long the night is and if there are too many hours available the next day put a small CN back in for one day.

I'm not really familiar with longer first A leading to night time OT causing EW, not heard of that. Is that something you are familiar with from the boards or DD1 perhaps?

I think most of the 2-1 nap drops take around a month, possibly 2 if you could from the first signs.

[eva026]

Honestly, I can’t remember DD1 from this time at all. I remember her dropping the nap at 2,9 months but nothing at all from 6-12 months
Today went pretty well she had a NF at 6am then slept till 7.40. I woke her from her cn after 20 min yesterday and she was irritable and mad till BT.
A month or two... I guess we can ride it it out. So that’s a push of 15 min a month till we get to 4.45-5h
I’m at 4.20a for the morning at the moment and she’s sleeping over 2h for her nap now. Will try a no nap day today and see how we go.

[eva026]

Yesterday worked great. She did a 2.5h nap and an ebt of 7.25pm, woke at 7am today but I cuddled her and she slept till 8. Nursery 9-12 today and I figured it works perfectly because I do a nap 12.45-3 and an ebt again but nursery foiled my plan. She was crying lots so they put her to sleep at 10.45-11.30.... now I’m in a pickle with nap 2 because I have DD1 to pick up at 4.

[creations]

Yesterday worked great. She did a 2.5h nap and an ebt of 7.25pm, woke at 7am today but I cuddled her and she slept till 8.

Brilliant!

She was crying lots so they put her to sleep at 10.45-11.30.... now I’m in a pickle with nap 2 because I have DD1 to pick up at 4.

Oh dear, not good.

Hope you managed okay somehow.  Tomorrow is another day x

[eva026]

It was ok, I apoped a 1.5h nap and her final A was 5h. Then we got 3 nw from 10-11pm. Nursery again today so things are out of my hands.

[creations]

Not as bad as it could have been then, you did well to AP a decent nap

[eva026]

Im a bit stuck. I’ve asked them not to put her to sleep unless she starts crying. Looks like she starts crying at 10.30 every day so they put her down for a 30-40min nap. Then 3h later I apop a nap and BT 4.30h later.
We have started getting long chatty nw.
I can’t really ask them to torture her and not put her down when she’s crying, although I suspect it’s not that she’s tired because she hasn’t done a 3h morning A for 6 months, but maybe... it’s only her 2nd week of nursery. Do I cap the 2nd long nap? Thinking to do 1 nap at weekends.
How do you drop to 1 nap if the first one is the cn? With it the other way around you move the nap slowly to the desired time and keep shortening the cn. This way I’m not sure

[creations]

How do you drop to 1 nap if the first one is the cn? With it the other way around you move the nap slowly to the desired time and keep shortening the cn. This way I’m not sure

You reduce the first nap in length and bring nap 2 earlier. It's basically the same thing but the other way around, so the long nap moves earlier and eventually the CN is so short it drops.  I imagine it's hard to ask nursery to cap that CN though?

Would she CN even earlier perhaps, so although I know she hasn't had such a short A time in 6 months maybe if they can get her to sleep as soon as she looks tired instead of waiting until she's upset they could cap it at 20 min and if that went well then cap it shorter at a later date?

[eva026]

Ok that makes sense.
Ill ask about capping the nap tomorrow. I doubt they can put her down earlier, it’s 10.30 most days and she wakes at 7.30-8. Breakfast is 9-9.30 and then they have some activities. How they’ll get her to sleep after 2h A I don’t know. Honestly I think it’s OS rather than being tired when they put her down but there is literally nothing I can do about that. Just a bit irritated because we had such a good routine going, heading towards one nap and great night.... now that’s all a mess and we either get Nw or I can’t get get down at BT. Don’t know how I can move her towards one nap when I have little control over her mornings.

[creations]

You might just have to go with the messiness for a bit. It might not be long, a month or so and then one day she'll just be able to drop the CN. Adjusting to nursery is part of it too isn't it? As you said the additional stimulation.
You'll have to just keep reminding yourself this is a temporary thing and will work out okay in the end!

Maybe what you said earlier, about capping the second nap?? Perhaps that could help with BT? I suppose I always look to keep one nice long nap to make sure the OT doesn't build up and to try to retain the habit of sleeping longer but if things are hard for you maybe this is the way to go for the short term.

[eva026]

Just popping on with an update and some questions. I managed to persuade nursery not to put her down for a nap, and now that she’s started enjoying her time there and not screaming half the time, they are ok with it. So we are officially on one nap as of a week. You don’t cap the nap at this stage, right? Even if it goes crazy long? I’m not sure if she’s a bit OT because one nap is new or ut because she’s getting lots of day sleep.
These have been our last few days:
Day1 WU 7.30, nap 12 - 3, BT 8pm
Day 2 WU 7.30, nap 12.15-3, BT 8pm took ages to get her down
Day 3 WU 6.00 (whaat?) nap 11-3, BT 8pm took ages
Day 4, WU 7am, nap 11-2, cn 5-5.30 BT 8.30 took ages
Today woke at 7.30
 
What do you think? Why is BT a problem all of a sudden? And these ew? 7 I’m not extatic about but 6 is too early.