Suddenly sleepless nights at 6 months...

[obi1d]

yes she's crying out, I mostly go in quickly so that she doesn't wake completely and i can turn her and resettle her without her being fully aware I'm there (if you know what I mean)!  Maybe I should wait a bit, tried that later on but she just ended up screaming as she was on her tummy and pushing right up on her hands.

Nothing seems to be getting any better, I can't think that I'm doing anything different, but I am finding she is refusing foods some of the time.  I have a few questions on feeds:

Morning milk - should it be separate from breakfast altogether ie. 1 hour apart
11am feed should this be separate from her solids totally??
Evening / teatime milk feed, should this be with solids or just before putting her down.

I'm so confused what happens with the milk feeds when the solids are coming in.

I fed Lara at 2.30am this morning as she'd been waking since 11.30pm, she ended up taking 7oz, so could be growth spurt but should it be lasting 11 days???

Today has been a bit of nightmare with naps, only 25 mins or so this morning at 9am and then of course the lunchtime one was very short, I have resorted to walking to a friend's 40 mins away so Lara would sleep there and back in the the pushchair, just for to get some sleep time in.  She has been taking a couple of mouthfuls of food and refusing it too, is this because she is overtired do you think?  I am also aware that my tiredness and emotions are probably affecting her too, so I'm going to bed tonight when she goes.  My other half works away alot too and most nights doesn't get home until 8.40pm, but tonight I need sleep more!  I'm just praying its phase/growth spurt/teething as I don't want to go to bed at 7.30pm every night and never see my partner.

Do you think I'm putting her to bed too late, last night due to fussing a bit and she eventually dropped off at around 7.50pm.

Sorry so many questions! 

My HV said that as she wasn't well (she had diarrohhea over Christmas) she got off track and is having trouble getting back to routine.  But to be honest, she was sleeping through when she had the upset tummy and only started waking several days after it had stopped.

Thanks again for any info, its so helpful and just to get it all off my chest is a relief.

P.S.  DH want to let her CIO (he has two children from his previous marriage and I guess that's what they did).  Does Tracy say its something you NEVER do or are there times when she thinks its okay.  I can't say that it appeals to me but I'll try anything at the moment.

Thanks :?

[hallas]

Hi

I have the same problem with my twins, feel exactly  the same, and is good to know my girls are not the only ones going through this.

Please let me know of any any good advise tiips etc , eill keep reading ...

thnx

Sonia

[obi1d]

Tracefo - isn't it frustrating and upsetting.  I'm with you on the crying front, I cry with her, and I get really angry with myself for getting frustrated with Lara.  Tiredness is a huge factor though isn't. 

What happened to our lovely good sleepers, good eaters and very happy babies??

 :cry:

Please let it be a phase that's ended today!!! :shock:

[obi1d]

Sonia

Have your girls started doing anything different?  More mobile or anything?  Lara seems to just keep turning and turning over - doesn't know which side or front or back she wants to sleep on!

Karen

[corrina01]

Tracy,

I will reply tomorrow. So hang in there. I have read your post and have a few suggestions.

[RebeccaH]

I'd like to post a little success! The night before last, the one before my first day at work (leaving the house at 7.15, no dh at home, and new job!) and he was up every 2 hours, was beside myself. Anyway last night I abandoned dream feed and he didn't wake until around 12.30, I waited for 5 minutes (on clock) and he was certainly noisy but I'm pretty sure it wasn't crying just that mantra cry thing. Anyway next time I heard him I looked at the clock and it was 3.30! Joy! He was really awake this time so I went in and decided if he wanted to play he could, but not with me, so I gave him a toy and walked straight out. I stayed awake for the next half hour listening to him playing and occassionally 'shouting out' but I left him and within half an hour he was back to sleep. He woke up the start the day at 6.30.

Not sure what'll happen tonight but feel better for more than 2 hours sleep. I agree with everything that's been said so far, growth spurt, physical development however I think when it's getting on for 12 days (did everyone else start this on new years day?!) it's getting to be a habit too. It's good to know I'm not alone in this.

[corrina01]

Karen,

Most mums give milk and then solids about 1hr after.  As my DD can't stay awake that long I always give my DD solids and then milk straight afterwards. But I think that all depends on what you think is right. 

How much solids are you giving her, and how many ozs of milk are you giving her?  Do you give her a dreamfeed?

Was she always a tummy sleeper?

With the naps and food.  She is overtired, so won't be taking quite as much food, so you will have to work on her naps.

I really don't think she is going to bed too late as 7pm is the norm for most mums,  but if she is tired, try putting her to bed at 6.30pm, until she gets back into the routine.

With the naps,  does she wake after 40mins and then won't resettle?  If so, do PU/PD until next feed time if necessary, every nap.  Reassure her with quiet words, saying like mummy is here, I'm not going anywhere, you just trying to go to sleep.  Put down as soon as she stops crying, and stroke her head with quiet words.  As she will be hitting 7 months, maybe it is the case of seperation anxiety.  I would not recommend CIO, as this will break the trust of you and your daughter, it may cause further problems.  This may take 3 days or a week or maybe longer but you have to be consisent.

[corrina01]

Rebecca,

Well done, I think he may have been picking up you were getting anxious about first day at work.  With my DD, it certainly was.  Now I have been back at work (2 days a week), she is sleeping much better, naps and bedtime.

Keep up the good work 

[hallas]

Hiya,

Twins are also coming down with a cold, added to the teething and weaning! don't know how much more they or I can juggle!

Have been guilty of letting them take naps in my bed in the day! only cos its so hard to quiten one and then the other, by the time the 1st oneis disturbed again! so have been placing the twins on the bed and patting both siultaneaously! but is this a bad habit in the wating??

In fear yesterday and today have been quite strict on putting them in the cots, at least when this weaning/teething/colds/ waking phase is over they will still be sleeping in the cots! ( she says!!)

Anyway the question is. ' To feed or not to feed?'  refering the 5am wake up due to growth spurt etc etc, have been giving water but doesn't settle the twins, have treid increasing suppply of food/milk in the day but again they only take what they want, can't force even if I try!

so will it become a habit if I feed at 5am? at least until this phase is over?I do try and ensure their bed time milk and dream feed is taken, but they at times only want half of it, other days all of it and more.

How much solids are your 6monthers taking? mine seem to take anything between 4-8 teaspoons full is that enough??

Sonia

[obi1d]

I wish I could leave Lara to play but she just cries and turns over on to tummy and won't go off to sleep.

UPDATE...last night she cried a lot when I put her down, not sure if its teething, she started the head banging thing (rocking head from side to side) anyway wouldn't settle, so I gave her some Calbufren, like Calpol but with ibuprofren to reduce inflammation.  This seemed to help, so think maybe she has some movement in her gums which has been upsetting her.  She went off to sleep no problem, tried the dream feed and she only took an ounce (i even tried giving it later to see if she would take more, thinking maybe that's why she's been waking), waffling sorry!  Well the major breakthrough is.....she slept all night long! Like she used to!  I woke up of course, but that's bearable if I don't have to get up!  she finally woke at 7.15am and was much happier.  What did I do differently?? or was it the teething.

I figured yesterday that she was so overtired we were getting ourselves into a little cycle of so overtired through not sleeping but too tired to get to sleep and stay asleep without waking every cycle.  So we went out for a long walk and she slept in the pushchair for well over an hour, this seemed to help.  I am having trouble with the evenings as she is really rubbing her little eyes, so I think I will have to bring her bedtime fwd.  At the mo, I go up at 7pm and she's normally in bed by 7.30pm but recently not going to sleep until nearer 8pm absolutely zonked through fussing and fidgeting for the last 30 mins or so.

Corrina, thank you for your help, here's my responses:

How much solids are you giving her, and how many ozs of milk are you giving her? Do you give her a dreamfeed?
I make up 8ozs each time with exception of dreamfeed, which I normally make 4 or 5 ozs as she only takes between 1 and 3 ozs.  Of the other 8oz feeds, I would say she takes all of the first bottle, sometimes some via breakfast cereal, the others she probably takes and average of 6oz each, with exception of the teatime/bedtime feed, she usually takes all of it.

Was she always a tummy sleeper?
No she's never been a tummy sleeper, that's the problem, she rolls over to her side and then over fully onto tummy and cries.  I keep thinking maybe I should try and get her to fall asleep on her tummy, but can't see how I can as she just pushes up on to her arms and then hands and cries.

With the naps and food. She is overtired, so won't be taking quite as much food, so you will have to work on her naps.
I agree on the naps versus eating, she ate much more today at lunch and tea, I'm sure its because she's feeling better due to a good night's sleep.

I really don't think she is going to bed too late as 7pm is the norm for most mums, but if she is tired, try putting her to bed at 6.30pm, until she gets back into the routine.
Yes, I normally put her down at 7.30pm but as mentioned above she has been fussing and fidgeting til nearly 8pm lately, so I think bringing it fwd would be a good idea and see how that goes.

With the naps, does she wake after 40mins and then won't resettle? If so, do PU/PD until next feed time if necessary, every nap. Reassure her with quiet words, saying like mummy is here, I'm not going anywhere, you just trying to go to sleep. Put down as soon as she stops crying, and stroke her head with quiet words. As she will be hitting 7 months, maybe it is the case of seperation anxiety. I would not recommend CIO, as this will break the trust of you and your daughter, it may cause further problems. This may take 3 days or a week or maybe longer but you have to be consisent.
Yes, I've tried leaving her for a little while to see if she will go back to sleep, but again, she just turns on to her tummy and starts a full on cry!  I have been reluctant to really get into the PU/PD method as so many people on these boards have said that it just irritates spirited babies (and she's very spirited!!!) :shock: and just makes them cry louder.  What do you think??I asked the HV about CIO and she says its fine and won't damage our relationship, but I'm really not sure and its so hard to do.

Its so difficult to know what to do for the best, I'm hoping that last night was the start of something good again!  We'll see! I'll keep you posted!

thanks again
Karen

[obi1d]

Sonia

Lara has on average the following solids:

Breakfast
6 (baby) spoons of dry porridge mixed with milk; or
0.5 to 1 weetabix with milk; or
a small jar of hipp organics porridge

Lunch
3 or 4 ice cubes of veg mixed with chicken or half a ready organic jar
half a mashed banana plus 1 cube of mango
or one petit filous

Tea
3 cubes of veg
6 baby spoons of rice mixed with milk and 3 cubes of apple/pear or some banana

She eats most of it (although she was off her food for the last few days due to overtiredness), she seems to be back on it today and ate a good lunch and tea.  The theory goes (I'm sure you know this) that if they eat plenty during the day, they should sleep at night! :lol:

We'll see!

Good luck...

Karen

P.S.  I put Lara's Grobag back on last night and think she may have been a bit warmer than the last week or so - maybe that's helped??  Who knows huh?!

[corrina01]

Karen,

I don't know if you have already done this, so excuse me if you have, coming up with suggestions.  During the A time, try putting her on her stomach, and try and teach her to roll back.  Or does she do that anyway?

I would decrease the dreamfeed now since your solids have been established,  she has a lot of solids, my DD is only on 2 meals a day and I give her 2tbsps. 

I think the main problem with your DD, is that she doesn't know how to turn over when she is asleep and wakes up to find she is on her tummy and it is very frustrating for her.  As soon as she knows how to roll back I think (I hope as I have been in this situation, as my DD has no intention of rolling) your troubles will be over.  Keep me posted and I will think what else could be wrong.

[corrina01]

Sonia,

If the twins are coming down with a cold and teething, do whatever you think is best, and as soon as they are well again, you can get back on track.

[obi1d]

Corrina

Thank you, no DD doesn't know how to turn back yet!  I will try and teach her and see if that helps.  Last night was another nasty one, even when I got Lara to sleep, I couldn't switch off :shock: , my eyes just didn't feel shut even when they were, if you know what I mean!!  I lost 3 hours sleep - yuk!  Needless to say was a little tearful this morning.

I managed to get Lara back to sleep whilst she was on her tummy last night (but not for long) as I keep thinking if she could get used to that then things would be fine.  I ended up feeding her as she was so wide awake and unhappy, she took 4oz - still a growth spurt??

This morning's nap time came and went, struggled with her and didn't succeed, so we went out to a group as I needed some sanity and support.  She fell asleep in the car on the way back, I tried to move her to her cot, all fine until I was actually hovering over the cot and putting her down, she started crying and woke up fully.  Ended up having take her out in the pushchair as she so desperately needed to sleep, she then slept for 1 hour and 40 mins (longest nap for ages).  Her routine was completely shot out due to the nap and ended up having lunch at nearly 3pm.  She then had another nap at 5pm for 35/40 mins.  Tea at 6pm.  Its all getting a bit late isn't it.  I'm aiming to get her into bed earlier tonight as her poor little eyes were rubbed away last night. 

I am interested in your views on PU/PD with spirited LOs.  Unfortunately we are away visiting family this weekend so I will just have to do all I can for not to wake up the whole household!  Looking forward to Monday and started a fresh week and routine!

As always, thanks for all advice given.
 
Karen & Lara
13.06.05 

I would be interested

[corrina01]

Just a thought on her feeding, are you on the hungrier milk, or on the first milk still?

About PU/PD I will reply in the morning, tired eyes getting to me as I have been hectic at work today.