Several questions on continued night wakings for 4 mo old - binkie, swaddle...

[MatthewsMommy]

Hi Tawnya,
I can live with one night waking - it was the up every few hours that was really frustrating to me. I have no clue why he did that for 2 days? I hope he's back to somewhat of a routine but we'll see. I will check that link about the reducing but think I will wait until he's at least 6 mos and see if solids help as well.

Oh also you had asked about the DF- I tried that and it made things worse as he still woke up about 3-4 for a feed so really wasn't worth it to me. I also know he CAN sleep thru the night - he's done it before for about a 2 week stretch - once at about 6 weeks and once at 2 mos.

Thanks again - will keep trying to keep him on track now in the day and his naps, etc. I think that's helped- you've been a big help - thank you,
Lauren

[teezee]

hope things keep progressing for you and remember if there is a set back or two don't give up - lo's need consistency!!!

[JennyE]

Hi Lauren,

I just thought you would like to know that you are not alone.  I went on the site looking for some answers, ideas, etcc..and cam across your thread.  I could have written it about my son who is now 41/2 months.  Over the past week or so, his sleeping has gotten progressively worse - last night he was up every hour.  2 weeks ago he was sleeping thru until about 5 or 6 each morning. I had the same paci questions, but don't know what I should be doing either.  We just stopped swaddling lo b/c he'd basically outgrown the Miracle Blanket.  But that was 3 weeks ago, so I don't think that is what is causing the problem.

To complicate things, my mother kept him 2 nights ago so that we could get some sleep.  He only woke up once at 4am to eat.....so I don't know what is going on.

I stay home with my son too - and give him a lot of attention during the day.  I am starting to wonder if he just doesn't like being alone in the crib.  I think he'd rather be with us. 

I don't know what to do next.  I have been a Zombie for the past 4 days.  I just hope every night that he will do better - but it hasn't improved.  I obviously don't have any great suggestions - but just wanted to let you know that you aren't alone.

[MatthewsMommy]

Hi Jenny,
So glad I am not alone even though it's very frustrating.  You sound about as frustrated as I am! I am at my wits end and am thinking of trying the DF again. I gave it four days last time but think I'll try for a week and if doesn't work drop it. I just can't sleep anymore knowing I will be awakened between midnight and 4 am and sometimes every 2 hours. I am exhausted (as I am sure you are!) and I just mentally can't take it anymore. Also am confused as he's now on the 4 hour easy and I posted this on the feedling forum (no replies really) that he's now missing a feeding since he got 5 feedings a day (not including night feedings) on 3 hour easy and now he gets 4. He was getting 6 ounces on 3 hour easy and I had upped it to 7 ounces about 2 weeks ago when I was transitioning him into the 4 hour easy. I tried 8 but he barely will take it. So now 4 feedings at 7 ounces versus his 5 feedings at 6-7 ounces  so that's a little less amount of formula per day and could this be an issue? Tracy doesn't address this in her books - she states at his age he should have 5-8 oz every 4 hours but it doesn't talk about what you should up the feed to when you make the 4 hour easy change to make the ounces the same or more? Am so confused...does this make sense?

Also question - how did you stop swaddling? We use Miracle blanket too and he keeps getting out of it. I tried today at his nap to leave his arms out and he'd wake after 45 min screaming. I then reswaddled him so he could finish his nap. Tried again at bed to leave his arms out (he's discovered his thumb and would like him to use it!) but again wouldnt' sleep. Second I swaddled him he was out. So it's another issue.

Anyway, I hope you get some sleep - do you do the DF?

Thanks for posting and sharing!
Lauren

[Katet]

you say an earlier bedtime but I don't do a dreamfeed so then IMO that would mean he eats his last feed earlier and will definatley wake? I don't think there is any way he can sleep thru the night anyway without at least one nighttime feed (which I can handle). So what time bed? I mean he goes now usually around 8-8:30 last night I fed him earlier at 6:30, but he still went to bed his usual time as he's not tired earlier and fusses more when we put him down before 8 - he takes a cat nap around 5-6ish and is definatley not tired before 8 often. We give him bath, food and a book between 7 and 8 usually. I'd prefer to get back to feeding him closer to his bedtime around 8- that seemed to work better for HIM. Since I've changed it, his wakings are a lot worse (ie with the 4 hour EASY it's changed)

 The only thing I see as an issue is that binkie.

I keep him up almost 2 hours after his morning feed - isn't that enuf? You said to make him stay up longer but I've also read 2 hours is the most. Also he doesn't nap well or long - sometimes he will but then I wake him like the book says but I am going to stop doing that. I think if he's sleeping, I will let him sleep. Not sure I agree on waking him in the morning either - again that's not working so well for us.

i think he doesn't seem tired to put to bed earlier as he is already over tired, I would try a 7pm bedtime (move catnap to 4.30-5pm) & then be prepared to feed 2 xnight & see if that improves things, just reading the wakeups I read Overtired & binkie (assume that means paci) problem

2 hours may also actually be too long & cause the short naps, rather than needing longer ones... you really need to look at your lo's sleep signs more than the clock

[MatthewsMommy]

ok can try earlier bedtime but is last feed would be at 7:30 (it's usually 7 but was later today) due to the 4 hour EASY - I could bump it up 30 min? I did a DF last night - am going to try it again and give it a week before I throw in the towel on that. He woke at 2:30 and binkie didn't work for an hour - ended up feeding him again. Woke again at 5:30 - didn't feed until 7:30. It's frustrating. He can't need this much food but that's all that gets him back to sleep and his wakings are erratic. He's 16lbs and gets quite enuf to eat so am perplexed....

Anyway will try the earlier bedtime. Also, I do'nt impose the catnap right? He always takes one on his own between 6 and 7 in his swing (while my husband and I have our dinner) and it's usually about 45 min. I've tried putting him in his crib for catnap and he won't have it- likes it in the swing while we eat and that's fine with me as long as it's not an issue but he decides to nap, I don't impose it if that makes sense.

Lauren

[Katet]

It could be food... trust me both my boys were over 17lb at 3months & althought bf & #1 did feed a lot, #2 not so much (although fast & efficient I think... just cos the norm says X doesn't mean that both my dh & I are tall & so the boys are & to be tall they need to grow lots in their first 2 years (1/2 adult height at age 2) & to get the bone structure they need calcium.

For me the 4hour easy meant 3.5 -4.5 hours as I am not a strict clockwatcher & also have a toddler. I think the key is not to let him be overtired, rather than keep a strict routine

Honestly if the waking is erratic & he only goes back to sleep with food, that is your answer he needs the food, he is waking with hunger

[MatthewsMommy]

agree, he must be waking for food - cause it is erratic and also he takes the feed and then is happy. But let me ask you this- with the DF being added should he still have woken up to eat at 2:59 am (I remember the time cause it was not quite 3 - LOL!). I mean he had his DF at 10:45. He didn't sleep much longer than his usual night waking times, or will it take a few nights to "kick in". If it doesn't kick in after a week should I drop the DF? Cause I've added a feeding now of course and then if I still feed at night seems silly. Or should I try to do the DF and wean the feedings when he wakes per that info you gave me on that link?

My husband and I are both small - I am 5'2" and he's 5'8" but Matthew was 7lbs 10 oz at birth, we can't figure out why or why he's so big!!! He probably will be short too. And neither of us are heavy either. Go figure!

Lauren

[teezee]

just to add to what kate said - if he is hungry he needs to be fed..the only thing to keep an eye on is if b/c of the night feedings he's not taking as much during the day. ie his morning feeding isn't that great.  also, the df may take a little while to kick in...if it doesn't work after a week or two it may not be your lo's thing.

[Katet]

It does take a few days for the df to kick in but it can be worth trying to 'reduce' the size of the feed you offer at the feeds you want to drop, so it doesn't take away from day feeds

[MatthewsMommy]

ah....ok, this is not working! I did the DF twice and on the 2nd night he woke for it and was up every 2 hours last night. I can't keep doing this and it's getting worse. I am trying to follow advice given here but nothing seems to be working for me. I moved his bedtime up, upped his feeds in the day, tried the DF. I don't know what to do anymore. When I first posted on the board I had 1-2 wakings a night, now I feel I am in a nightmare with the constant wakings since trying to get rid of those 1-2 wakings everything is off kilter and worse. He's on a good routine and eats well in the day and doesn't nap a lot so I have no clue what is the problem with the wakings.

Sorry. I am just at my wits end now. I am not going to to the DF anymore, he wakes during it and for it now. I need to get him to sleep thru longer stretches like he used to and I don't know how now. I feel I have gone 10x backwards. :-(
Lauren

[Katet]

Firstly regression is NORMAL & infact it can get worse before better & 2 nights of a df is not going to tell you it works or not.

You say he doesn't sleep too much in the day... can you pot what your day routine is like most of the time... not the one you hope for but the one you actually get. As I think overtiredness could be a part.

Also if you chop & change things every couple of days that is a guarantee that it will get worse as he gets confused... like travelling a different route to a destination... if you use 10 different routes you will never fully understand one

[MatthewsMommy]

Hi again,
I am not changing his routine around though (except the DF and tried an earlier bedtime) and he naps well (sorry I probably didn't write that correctly) - all I've changed is trying the DF, tried an earlier bedtime last night and he's on 4 hour easy which we transitioned into in 15 min increments over a few weeks. Here's his typical schedule though and it doesn't devitate much.

7AM - 7 oz eat
9AM - nap for 1.5-2 hours (sometimes 1 hour but usually not)
11AM - 7 oz eat
1PM - nap again -1.5 - 2 hours
3PM - 7 oz eat
5-6:30- capnap in his swing (only about 45 min, he just usually will catnap around this timeframe when he's not having acitivity time)
7ish- bath, book, bed by about 8ish and one last feed (7oz)
now without DF (between 10:30 and 11) he's been getting up about 2AM and again at 4 AM and 5AM and 6AM... with DF, it's 10:30 PM, midnight, 2AM, you get the picture

I think his routine is good? I feed him only ONCE at night on these wakings - about 4-6 oz and he takes it all and goes back to sleep, no matter the amount. The rest he will only go back to sleep with binkie but I have to keep putting it in as even if he falls asleep and it falls out he wakes up right away and wants it. He doesn't seem to get into a DEEP SLEEP. He always wakes at 5:30 and then again at 7 and that was prior to anything - seems to be his habitual wakeup times.   Other times are erratic.

Hope this helps!
Lauren

[teezee]

just to throw another thought out there (i don't think this has been mentioned at all...) could your lo not be getting into a deep sleep b/c of pain, tummy troubles, etc??  i know i thought i had a huge paci prop problem on my hands with my lo always waking and that was the only thing that got her back to sleep - in reality it just comforted her b/c she was really uncomfortable and couldn't get through the light period of sleep (her sleep cycle) b/c of it. have you tried gripe water or something of that nature before bed or even before the last feeding??

[Katet]

The two things I would be looking at is the binkie, the fact he keeps waking when it falls out says it is a prop... 4months is about the time it swings either way... looks like it is a prop for your ds.
The second is his awake time seems a bit long to me... for both my ds at 4months slightly less than 2 hours was their max... I actually had to do a bit of juggling & I actually think he probably needs 3 long naps for a month or so then he will be mature enough for 2 naps + catnap.

All that said your lo hasn't read the book & "good" you think the routine is, it may not be right for him, he may have been better at 3.5hour easy still or a 3/3.5/3/3.5 kind of pattern. All babies are different & to be honest the only way I found to 'stop' night wakings with ds#1 was to "follow his lead' he still can nap from 3-5pm & be ready for bed at 7.30pm & sleep well, where as most mums I know with 2.5yo would say....Oh I have to wake him/her up by 3 or they will never go to bed.

So can I suggest try to watch him more & the clock less for a few days & see what his "cues" are telling you & maybe you can find the "tweeks" to the routine that he needs