6 month old wakes twice at night and again at 4:30!

[Gail B]

My lo wakes between 11 and 1, and often again around 3.  Then, between 4 and 5 is hell!  He wakes every morning and takes at least 40 minutes to get back to sleep.  Then, he gets up by 5:30 anyway!  Should I try the wake to sleep even though his wake-ups are not at exactly the same time?  I tried the dream feed one night, but he only took about an ounce.  Then he pushed it out of his mouth, which is the same thing he does when he wakes on his own.  He doesn't really seem to want food, as he doesn't take more than 3 ounces in the night.  Help!

[teezee]

def if lo doesn't want to eat (lack of interest/eating) at night then don't get lo into the habit of feeding! you can't do wake to sleep unless lo pretty much has some sort of waking 'pattern' going as you wouldn't know what time to do the wake to sleep kwim?? could you pls post your routine so that i could take a closer look for you??

[Gail B]

Hi!

He has been on the four hour EASY for about a month and doing pretty well.  His routine is something like this:

5:30 a.m. wake up

7:00 6-7 oz. bottle

7:30 Nap- (Read 2 books, binky, blankie, white noise)This is his longest nap- usually about an hour.

8:30- breakfast of veggies

8:30-10:30  Floor time/exersaucer  etc.
11:00- bottle
Nap (Not together with bottle) app. 30-50 minutes
12:00-2:00 Activity time- Stroller or floor
Nap
3:00 Bottle
Activity
4:30 Catnap (Usually takes a while to get him down)
5:15 cereal
6:15 bath bedtime routine bottle
7:00 bed
Around 11:30 2 oz.
4:00 wake (approximate)
5:15 wake up

His feeding times are pretty set, but the naps vary.  I try to give him a nap after 2 hours of being awake since he is also is not a good napper.  My Mom watches him 4 days a week, and she really follows what I want her to do.
I very much welcome your advice!
Gail

[teezee]

ok...well it could be couple of different things or a combination of things..i think that maybe your lo doesn't need the catnap anymore - at least not every day. it is approx 6-8 months lo's start to kick this catnap.

7:30 am is way too early for a nap! a nap should not occur before 8:30 imo.

12 to 4:30 is an awful long A time for a lo that age also...my lo couldn't make it even at 10 months old!

what i can suggest is that you stretch out the morning a bit more (if at all possible) with some low key A time, lo is not going to ever sleep through at night getting that early nap. am naps are looked at as an extension of night sleep and if lo is getting a nice early morning nap why should he sleep at night??! extend that A time as much as you possibly can without making lo overtired, a little longer every other day.  i would def cut down the pm A time as i believe that is too long. right now leave the catnap but do it earlier and make sure it doesn't exceed about a half hr. as you are stretching out the morning A time and the day is moving forward ... sleep times...A times...etc... you should be able to slowly drop out the catnap...once lo is napping at least an hr later thus moving the day up an hr, start (for a few days) putting lo to bed earlier (you may be surprised at the sleep you get...with any luck you WILL be surprised ) and hopefully that will help get everything ironed out...pls let me know if there are any questions! good luck!!

[Gage and Sophie's Mom]

Hi there! Gage used to do this as he wasnt tired enough to go to sleep for the night. It seems like your lo is having 4 naps. About how much total day sleep is he getting? At this age the short naps are usually due to being undertired. the 6 month is a funny time for this. If it were me, I would try to gradually extend the second A time to get a longer naps in hopes of ditching the 3rd nap and just keep with the catnap. If you are sure that this not a hunger issue then I would try to extend these A time gradually like 10-15 min every 3 or 4 days.

Also, what is your response to your lo when he wakes? Do you give him time to put himself back to sleep or do you jump right in? I used to go to Gage right away with a bottle because I was afraid that he would wake totally. I didnt realize that I had become part of the prob. until one time I came back with a bottle and he was asleep. Now I really listen before I jump in and soemtimes peak in to see if his eyes are open. Anyway, babies can often sound like they are awake (cry out or fuss for a bit) and they really arent. Very crazy!

Just some thoughts. HTH

[Gail B]

Hi there!  Thanks for the advice!  Well, the past two days I had dropped the catnap and could already see improvement.  I also  wouldn't pick him up at the 4 am wakeup.  He was really mad for about 5 min. but I kept giving the binky and kept my hand on his back and he went back to sleep!  Then today, he made it all the way to 5:45- his latest ever.
I don't keep him up from noon to 4:30- that looked confusing the way I wrote it- he gets a nap after every two hours of being awake.  But I will continue to cut it down to 3 naps.  I really like your advice on slowly moving the first nap to later...I can see how that will move everything forward.  I was giving him a 4th nap so he wouldn't go so long between nap 3 and bedtime, but yours is a much better idea.
I also did the dream feed at 10:15...still only took 2.5 oz, but I know he likes the contact- after that he made it til 3 and all I had to do was go in and give the binky, and he went right back to sleep.  Should I not bother with the dream feed?
Thank you both for your advice!
Gail

[teezee]

the df is 50 - 50. sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't...may have started well but lost 'effect' along the way kwim? i didn't realize the df was contributing to my lo's night wakings at around 7 months - but when i stopped - it def showed great improvements...i also think the df is nice for us too - to get that calm, angelic time with our lo's... but, tracy does suggest dropping the df at 7 months at it will start to cause more wakings than deterring them approx at this point.  i did stop the df cold turkey out of pure frusteration and had great results..i wouldn't necessarily suggest it to anyone else but suggest a slow weaning process - but if your lo is already just taking that little amount you may want to try cold turkey and see what happens. it is totally your call!

i am soo happy things are already improving for you guys! don't be at all deterred if you have any regressions at all with any of the changes you are making as that is totally normal. if you need anything else let me know...keep me updated though!!

[Gail B]

Hi there!  Well my little Trent is now almost 7 mo., and I am still having  the same issues.  What you said about moving the day forward made total sense, but I just can't get it to carry over to sleeping later the following morning.  He winds up taking a very early nap which I recognize is really just finishing the nighttime sleep. 

At night, his wake-ups are so erratic.  Some nights  he only wakes up once and then not until 5 or 5:30 and other night he wakes up twice or more.  I know it's not due to hunger- I only feed him once during the night and he only takes two ounces.  Should I just cut this feeding out entirely?  When he wakes at night, I try not to go in if he has just the mantra cry/fussing, but it usually escalates quickly, and then I go in.

How can I get him to sleep through the night? How can I get him to sleep later in the morning?
Help!

Gail

[teezee]

really you need to extend the morning A time as you said 'he is just finishing' his night sleep and not using it as a nap to reenergize...he is using the early nap to catch up on the sleep lost from the early waking. do whatever you can to stretch out that A time..even if it means lo seems a little overtired - it is the morning and hopefully will nap well and it will not affect the next night's sleep.

if lo is only taking 2 oz then i wouldn't think he needs that feeding at night. are you doing a df? or is this 2oz feed - does lo wake for it? could you post a current routine??

[ashtonsmummy]

hi my lo just turned 6months his routine is something like this

wake 7 - 8
floor time 1hr
breakfast 8 -9 at least 1/2 to 3/4 cup rice cereal
either walker or jumper
nap 9 or 9:30 for 1 to 1.5 hrs
wake more walker or floor time
bf 10:30 or 11 both sides total 20 mins
lunch solids at least 4 1/2 oz meat and veggies then 2oz fruit
activity time til nap
nap 1 or 1:30 for 1 to 1.5 hrs
wake 2 or 2:30  bf bothside about 20 mins total
activities time
bf more around 4or 5 and nap 1 more time for about 35 mins to 1rh
wake eat dinner with us bath then bf again before bed at around 7 to 8 pm

sometimes wake around 10 or 11 can be settled with paci right away
but wakes at 12 or 1 and wants to bf i started only giving him one side and put back into bed can fall asleep on his own with paci then up again anyware from 3 to 4 hrs wants to bf again only one side then back to sleep and up at 6am can be settled with paci or sometimes i bring him to bed with me and he will sleep till 7 or 8 then awake for the day. i have been shortening the feed times during the nite and still he wakes what am i doing wrong i am so tired of waking up pls help me.

[teezee]

i'm a little confused by your routine - how many bf's a day is lo getting? and do you have a definate 4hr routine going on? at that age my lo would go sometimes up to 5hrs between feeds..etc as then she would get more at one sitting. what age did you start solids with your lo at? have you always had these problems or are they new?

[ashtonsmummy]

hi thanks yes he is bf every 3 to 4 hrs and

wake 7 to 8 am

breakfast 8 to 9am

lunch 12 to 1pm

dinner 5 to 6pm

bed 7 to 8pm
 
naps are between 1 to 1.5 hrs except last nap before dinner is about 35 to 60 mins

he is a very good baby never really cries eats well plays well, except he is up at nite and i am going crazy. oh and he cant have formula has allergies to all.

when he does wake at nite he eats i sit him up and burp him then put him back to be no prob. but if i just give him the paci he gives me the hungry cry. sometimes he does fall asleep on the boob and before i would put him into bed but i have stopped that. and yes he has always done this through the nite. he would always wake up every 4 hrs to feed and go immediately back to sleep.

[teezee]

you should def been aiming for 'most' of the time having at least 4 hrs between feedings as lo will take in more food and be able to go the longer periods without it at night.

it does seem that your lo is nursing for comfort at night, and along the way probably started taking some needed 'daytime' calories then in exchange for dropping them during the day.  i would try comforting lo and getting back to sleep without feeding first, and if he wakes within the hr then feed. if lo sleeps longer than an hr you can be pretty sure that it wasn't a waking b/c of hunger.

how long has lo been waking for now? is it something new? could it be something in your diet as you are bfing that could be upsetting lo's belly of giving lo gas?? my lo had that problem and would comfort nurse and drain both breasts as it must have been soothing for her belly...but created night eating habits that were really hard work to get away from.

i would say that you may want to start limiting the catnap to the max of 1/2 hr. around 6-8 months lo's start showing signs that they are ready to drop the catnap by extra night wakings and not wanting to go down for that nap. if limiting the catnap to a half hr doesn't help you (if he is waking for the usual night feedings - we have to eliminate those with a different method), if it doesn't eliminate any 'extra' wakings then it may be time to drop it totally...but we will talk about that when the time is right - right now work on the 1/2 hr bit.

if you are wanting to eliminate those night feedings - i am posting a link that i am sure you will find useful. it is about weaning the night feedings and you do it by cutting down on the number of minutes that you nurse at each feeding - a couple minutes every few nights so it is slow and gradual and lo doens't really miss it. as lo is taking less at night - lo naturally starts taking in more bm during the day. here is the link:

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=46907.0

[ashtonsmummy]

hi thanks i will try the 1/2 hr cat nap see how that goes and def put him on the every 4 hr bf.  i will let you know how it goes.

[ashtonsmummy]

one more thing i don't do a df should i do this at such a late age and if so what time he goes down around 7 8 last bf at anyware from 6:30 to 7:30 so should i df 10:30 or 11.