Poor Weight Gain - need change in routine

[gabriels mum]

Hi

I've written before re: DS terrible bottle feeding, but until now he has remained to gain weight along the 50th centile.  However, he has now not gained any weight in 3 weeks, and I do not know how to increase his intake.  He is almost 6months 3 weeks old, and at present is totaling 17-20ounces milk a day, with 3 small meals (but sometimes he doesn't want these!).  I have already spaced out feeds to between 4-5hours apart, but he still manages no more than 20ounces!

Our routine looks something like this:

7.00am wake up
7.30am milk feed (anything from 2-5ounces, usually 3 or 4!)
followed by breakfast (usually only a small yogurt or some banana)
11.30 - 12.00 milk feed (anything from 2-7ounces!)
followed by lunch (sometimes quite a lot, sometimes nothing!)
4.00pm milk feed (anything from 2-7 ounces!)
follwed by tea (again, sometimes a lot, sometimes nothing!)
8.30pm milk feed (usually 7 ounces)

However he takes it, it normally takes 3 milk feeds to reach 11 or 12 ounces, but if I knew how much he would have at each feed, I could perhaps amalgamate 2 of them, but it is very inconsistent!

I also give solids straight after the milk, as if I spaced these out, he would be even less hungry for his next feed!

I really don't know what to do, as I am returning to work on Monday, and Gabriel will be attending nursery.  I don't know if I can change his routine in order to up his intake or let him continue as above (but very concerned re: lack of weight gain).

Not sure if I should drop down to 3 milk feeds a day (but he never takes a big feed for the first one of the day, and I don't want to send him off to nursery without giving him a bottle, as I am worried that he won't take anything while there!)

If any one has any ideas, If really appreciate it!

Thanks

Gabriel's Mum

[LŠuren]

Hiya
Does he take any milk in the middle of the night?

Gabriel is a week younger than DS, we are also on a 4.5 easy and I give solids after milk, can you also let me know;
what solids you are offering - amount and what type
What size of teat you use
Have you tried giving him a 5 - 10 min break and then trying again
How long has he done this for?
When did you start solids?
When did you switch to 4hr EASY?

Usually from what I have heard from other peope on the boards the total oz actually increase becasue their LO's are being fed when they are hungry.

[gabriels mum]

Wow, that was quick!

For breakfast I used to offer baby cereal, but he has gone off this, so now just offer petite filous & or pear/banana, as he seems to like these, although doesn't tend to eat much breakfast at all!

For lunch, I usually offer mixed root veggies or cauliflower cheese (anything from 2-4 cubes) followed by either fruit (sometimes half a banana or 3 cubes of pear), or petite filous . 

For tea it will be the same as for lunch (we've not mastered fish or chicken yet!)

I'm already mixing most things with cream cheese to up the calcium and calories, but it's obviously not working.

We are on a 6month+ teat, so when he is hungry, he drinks it in less than 10 mins.  I've tried the break, but he never takes anymore.

We've been on solids for 6 weeks now.

He's always been a bad milk drinker, and I've extended the feeds to 4.5/5 hours ish for about 6 weeks or so.  I only tend to feed if I think he appears hungry, but sometimes it goes beyond the 5hour mark, so I try to feed anyway.

I'm not sure if maybe I should only be on a 3 milk feed and meals thing, so he really is hungry, and perhaps give the first feed of the day later (when he actually cries for it, which he never does first thing in the morning!)

I'm a bit scared of changing things, as I've only got 3 days left before I go back to work, but I'm really worried about his weight gain!

Any ideas?

[LŠuren]

My initial thought is that he is getting a lot of solids and it is putting him off his milk. I think before you cut to 3 bottles you could try and reduce his solids slightly.

Her is our routine;

7.00am wake up
7.30am milk feed 7oz
followed by breakfast (1.5 tablespoon of readybreak and 2 small icecubes of fruit)
12.00 milk feed 6oz
followed by lunch (either 2 large or 3 small ice cubes of veggies and pasta/rice/chicken) + 1/2 to a full petite filous or jelly
4.30pm milk feed 6oz
follwed by tea (same as lunch with no dessert)
6.00 I have started giving him a snack when DH and I eat our tea; either small sandwich, small rusk or organix rice cake.
7.15 - 7.30 pm milk feed 10oz
No dreamfeed or night waking for feed.

If you did cut to 3 bottles you would probably do the following;
7.00am wake up
7.30am milk feed
followed by breakfast
11.30 - 12.00 lunch
1.30/2pm milk feed
4.30pm by tea
8.30pm milk feed


You would probably need to give it a few days either way to see any improvements in his eating, to give him time to adjust.

I went back to work 3 weeks ago, are you going back p/t or f/t?

[gabriels mum]

Hi girls, thanks for your replies!

Even before we started solids, his milk intake was quite bad (got to approx 26oz, including DF).  I got the biggest feed down him as a DF, but stopped this as I am due back to work, and want my sleep.  To my horror, it has not affected his milk intake during the day, and infact breakfast bottle seems to be the worst one of the day!

Sometimes, if he has taken only 2 ounces at breakfast, I don't offer him solids, as I want him to take a good feed at the next one, but any which way I try it seems to take 3 feeds for him to take 11 or 12 ounces. 

I know the solids sound alot, but quite often he doesn't eat all or anywhere near these amounts, he's generally not too fussed on milk or solids unless he is starving - and he never seems to be that starving!

Going back full time, and dreading it!!!!  Lauren, how are you finding work??

Tomorrow, I think I may not offer anything when we get up, and wait for him to appear hungry to see what time this is?!  I just wonder if 4 milk feeds in a day does not allow for him to get hungry enough??   Or maybe he just hates milk so much, that 17-20ounces is all he will take?!

Forgot to say he is a very active baby, so must be using up more energy than he is taking in.

[LŠuren]

Going back full time, and dreading it!!!!  Lauren, how are you finding work??

It is OK at the moment because I am part time, 20hrs over 3 days. F/t again end of Sept 06    I have also noticed you give him cauliflower cheese, this will also be giving him calcium.

There are a few ideas here for you to think over.

Forgot to say he is a very active baby, so must be using up more energy than he is taking in.

Got one here too, doesn't stay still for a minute, I am dreading him starting to crawl.....

Good luck

[LŠuren]

gabriels mum 
Check out his thread, they are discussing milk intake just now 
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=43351.new;topicseen#new

[gabriels mum]

Thanks you 2!  I'm going to give a couple of things a go & see what happens!  It's so hard to know whats the right thing to do!  My mum thinks I should offer bottle feeds more often, as he only takes small feeds, the HV says I should concentrate on the solids, and the GP says just bottle feed every 4 hours, and it doesn't matter how much he takes, and that I am thinking about it too much!  I just want him to grow, and wish the feeding thing wasn't such a nightmare!!!

Will let you know how it goes!

Lauren, how do you have time to do all the BW stuff, plus work, plus look after a bubba?!!!!!!

[LŠuren]

He is now sleeping for the night and DH is at the gym, so I am getting quite ME time 

No wonder you are confused with all different info, I found the thing when I was starting out - I decided to take on board what every said then make my own plan up. I too spoke to HV and BW's, etc and was told different things.

The minimum daily intake is 20oz (pint), if you want to increase that try reducing solids. If you are happy and HV is happy with no weight gain then continue as you are.  The only bit advice I would say definitely NOT to follow is more frequent feeds, stick to 4hours - otherwise you will have a snacker.

If your nursery if any good they will be keeping you informed of how he is doing, you never know he might watch all those other children drinking and eating and want to join in the party. 

[gabriels mum]

Today has not gone at all well so far.  This morning we did not wake him up, but he woke just before 7 anyway.  We did not try to feed at 7.30am, and mistakenly thinking he was ratty at 8.00am tried to feed him, but he only took 2.5ounces (and not just hungry for solids, as he only had half a petite filous!).  At 12.00, again thinking he was giving the hungry signs - he took just 1ounce!  I did not give him any lunch, as am so worried about his milk intake.  So far he has had 3.5ounces all day!

I am so fed up of spending everyday in floods of tears over his feeding, and do not know how I will cope when I am back at work next week.

[LŠuren]

Is he regularly having bowel movements? Could it be he is constipated? this makes their hunger decrease

What has he has so far today?

{{{hugs}}}}} Lauren

[gabriels mum]

Since he's been totally on formula, I have never not dreaded a feed.

I said this to anothor BW mod not that long ago, we also have up and downs and when the down arrive I hate the whole drama of feeding him milk...


not sure about the test.. let me have a look   

I have managed to overwrite you post by mistake .... oops  sorry......

[LŠuren]

I think it is a stool test for babies - done at your doctors.

http://www.foodallergysolutions.com/lactose-intolerance.html
http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/Lactose_intolerance?open=
http://www.cyh.com/HealthTopics/HealthTopicDetails.aspx?p=114&np=302&id=1787


https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=57221.0  - talks about lactose intolerance



If a baby or young child is experiencing symptoms of lactose intolerance, many pediatricians simply recommend changing from cow's milk to soy formula and waiting for symptoms to abate.

If necessary, a stool acidity test, which measures the amount of acid in the stool, may be given to infants and young children. Undigested lactose fermented by bacteria in the colon creates lactic acid and other short-chain fatty acids that can be detected in a stool sample. In addition, glucose may be present in the sample as a result of unabsorbed lactose in the colon. http://allergies.about.com/library/blniddklactose2.htm

[gabriels mum]

Hi Lauren

Thanks for this!  I'm going to see how nursery get on next week with him and take it from there.  I've also been wondering that as he was born on the 9th centile, and jumped up 2 to the 50th - maybe his body is trying to get back there??  Don't know, just been through every single explanation I can come up with!

Lou

[momofella-grace]

Hello, ive just noticed your post after posting my own..we seem to have the same problem ! It really is a worry. im trying to hide milk in all her foods but of course you can only put so much in. Ella really has no interest in milk at all and is also failing to gain weight. If i find any solutions i will let you know. Lisa x