What to do about night feeds?

[debo620]

Hi Kim, I am glad to hear your good news--good job and good for your daughter. I am confident I will get there soon! I here you on the enough is enough.
I totally understand  you on the CIO. I don't agree with CIO--mostly b/c I think my son would just cry forever and b/c I dont think its fair to come one night and not the next. Plus what if he is stuck or something? But I do think a little fussing is ok and it sounds to me you are doing just fine. I think you know it in your heart when they really need you and you know what type of cry to respond to.
Good job,
I will keep you posted....

[CLJK]

Hi Deborah -

I do allow a full feed.  The other night when he didn't wake until 5:45 I did not and he went back to sleep fine - I just knew that he would not be really hungry for his morning feed otherwise.  And, actually, he really is never that hungry when he wakes around 6:45-7:15, so I don't think he really needs the 4:15 feed.  I think I will do w2s tonight at 3:15 and see if we can start pushing this night feed back a little bit.  We tend to keep his bedroom door closed until we go to bed and then open it so I can turn the monitor all the way down.  Then I don't have to hear every little sigh and turn amplified in my ear.  After I feed him during the night I close the door and turn the monitor up otherwise my 3 year old may get up first and make a lot of noise, waking the baby.

Kim - good job on getting your LO off the night feed!  I got a little blasted about the CIO thing in one post because I said what a great book the Ferber book is, even if you don't do the CIO method.  I learned a lot of information that helped me understand why my son might be waking up.  I don't mean to offend the Tracy followers as I certainly believe in her methods and used them for two kids, but Ferber is a sleep expert and studies sleeping disorders, so I think he knows from what he speaks.  We opted to let my son cry for 3 minutes and, other than maybe the first two nights, it has never gone that long - he puts himself right back to sleep in about 30 seconds.  I don't like hearing him cry, but what many parents don't like to accept is that their child will cry many more times in his life when you are doing something he doesn't like but is the best thing for him, ie, sleeping!  I kind of got over the crying for myself because we were going in there to do pu/pd and it just wasn't helping.  Now he rarely wakes at all at night except for the one night feed and then he goes right back to sleep.  And we're all doing much better.  There clearly is a difference between cries and you have to know your child, and it sounds like you got the right recipe to solve the problem.  I think the main key is consistency, consistency, consistency.

I will see how the w2s works tonight!!

-Cass

[JennŠ]

Guys, as one of the moderators, I have to remind you to please not discuss CIO or CC here in the open forums.  As previously stated, it goes against Tracy's beliefs.  To continue to do so is an insult to her work and memory.  Not to mention goes against the wishes of her family, who generously keep this site open.  Feel free to exchange these ideas in e-mail or pms, just can't be on the forums.  Not a personal attack, just stating the forum policy.  Now I can ditch the mod hat and say I hope that w2s works for you!   

[Tatumsmom]

Jen~ Using the term CIO doesn't mean we approve of the method . If you read all our post you would see that our meaning of CIO is not the same as most people. I don't think that there is anything wrong with referring to the term. I know that under no circumstance I'm I an advocate of that method, I was just trying to explain what worked for me !! Maybe CIO isn't the right term to use but I didn't know how else to explain it!! I understand that it goes against Tracy beliefs and it goes against mine. I'm sorry to say that it did feel like a personal attack. I didn't mean to insult anyone especially Tracy family or memory.
Kim

[JennŠ]

Kim, I did read the entire post.  What you are doing is simply letting your babe try to resettle herself.   By mentioning CIO, it could be taken incorrectly as letting a child  mantra cry is actually a form of CIO or CC. A new member may not understand this though.  Then they think what they are doing is wrong if they are doing the same thing.  Does that make sense?  The mods also need to look at that aspect of it: could something be totally misunderstood?  Accordingly, when we see something, we have to respond to it.  My post was more to anyone reading the thread afterwards and getting wrong ideas.   Also, to try to prevent another CIO/no CIO debate starting, as they just get too heated.   

[Lana]

Well said Jenn.  We do need to be careful how things are worded so that people just starting out will not be confused

[Tatumsmom]

Hi Deb and Cass,
Just checking in to see how things are going. Tatum is doing well and last night, she woke at around 5:00 and she fussed for maybe a minute or so. I didn't even have to go in to her. I am still doing the W2S  around two just to make sure she doesn't get into the habit of waking at 3 again. Hope all is going well for both of you.
Kim

[debo620]

Unfortunately, we have had a rough couple of nights!! The last 2 nights my DS has woken at 12:30am. I have really been trying to keep with the no feed before 2am. Especially since yesterday, my DS took 7oz formula at 3:30pm and another 7oz of EBM at 6:45pm (bed). I just can't see how he can be hungry so early (12:30am)! Anyway, sent DH in a couple of times, but he just got frustrated. My son would settle and then start up again. I finally started going in at 1:30 am. He did go back to sleep at 2am after I spent a few minutes rubbing his back and sitting beside his bed until he was asleep. That was weird b/c I have NEVER been in the room for him to fall asleep. He only slept until 2:30am at which point I fed him for 6min.
I just can't bear for him to lose so much sleep or for me to lose so much sleep for that matter. Tonight I am doing w2sleep at 11:30am.
I am also giving as many bottles as possible today for his feeds--so that I can really know how much he is taking in. I BF him this am. But then his 2nd feed he took 7oz bottle.
Wish me luck! I am really needing some

[Missy Lou]

ok - i'll plead ignorance and admit i didn't read the whole post.  i was just looking around because my lo has a habit of waking during the night every once in a while and i always wonder about feeding her.  it's so hard to tell sometimes.

so my question is debo, lo is about 7.5 months or so?  do you do solids too?  have you dropped the DF?  my lo is 7 months and i'm thinking of dropping it soon but i haven't decided yet.

[debo620]

Hi mlee,
yes we do solids. I am still very much struggling with the milk intake/solid intake ratio especially since we still have that night feed. I havne't done a dream feed since 4months old. I am a prime example of why not to drop the df cold turkey. One night at 4months old, I didn't do the df and lo slept from 7pm-5:30am without feed. The next 2 nights he woke at 1 or 2am. This I didn't like and he had hard time settling after feed so I tried to reintroduce the df.  He was then taking a df plus waking for a feed btwn 1-2am. Long story short we have been struggling with night feeds since then.  Generally speaking, he will only go 4hours after a night feed which is why I am trying to keep it at 2 am or later.  If I can keep that feed at 2am or later, I have been trying to slowly wean the minutes.
Read up on how to drop the df gradually, I believe it involves moving it earlier and earlier in the evening. I beleive it is recommended this is done btwn 7-8 months depending on solid intake. HTH

[Missy Lou]

yes it does.  it's just so hard to know what to do sometimes.  i'm not always sure about the solids/milk intake ratio either.  i guess we just keep learning don't we?

i'm can't now but i do plan on reading your entire post.  i see a lot of people are offering tips but i still am going to read through and see if anything hits me. 

i think you're doing such a great job working on helping your lo.  i'm sure all of the craziness can be really draining on you but you're putting your lo first and that's so wonderful.  a lot of moms would be tempted to give up and just let lo go it alone but from the two or three posts that i've read, you aren't doing that.  you're a great example of how selfless moms can/should be.   

melissa

[debo620]

Thanks Melissa for the words of encouragement. You are right, it is very tireing. At least now it is dark outside, my Dh and I were in bed and ASLEEpP by 9pm last night.

[Missy Lou]

9 p.m?!! You must have thought you were in heaven. 

[CLJK]

Hey there -

Gannon is doing pretty well, I must say.  However, I did a w2s the other night and it didn't go well as he woke right up and stared at me.  I ducked out of sight just in time, but was stuck sitting there on the floor where he couldn't see me from about 3:15 - 3:40 until he fell back asleep!!!  All that and he only woke up about 15 minutes later than normal!!  Last night, he wasn't up until about 5:15 to eat and then went back to sleep until around 7:30.  It took him a good 25 minutes to fall back asleep, though, so I wasn't sure for a while there whether I was going to have to go get him up for the day!  I think I will just leave things as they are for a another week or so and see if he will continue to move his feed later and later each night on his own.  My older son did that, although that was at 6 months of age, not almost 8 months old!!  I tried feeding him on just one side for two nights and I think that helped him to take a better morning feed, but it also made him wake up a little ealier for the day than normal.  Oh well, nothing is perfect.

Deborah - just stay the course with sending DH in.  I know it's tough, but these babes thrive on consistency.  Last night Gannon woke up at 3:15 and I was thinking - no way!  Don't go backwards!  I let him be and he fell asleep about 2 minutes later and with just a little fussing and I never had to go in. 

BTW, mlee - I see your point about cio.  I don't think what any of us is doing is the cio method, but letting the babies learn to settle themselves.  It's something you just have to learn with your own baby and since I am on LO#2 I think it is a little easier for me to accept that some fussing and crying is inevitable and as long as I know the difference between my LO's cries ("I'm not very happy about this" vs. "Mommy I need you NOW"!), then I can do what is best for him.  I just think some moms get the idea that their child should never ever cry, regardless of what TH wrote in the books. She said there would be lots of crying - both for babies and for moms (mantra cry).  We need to let our babies have the chance to learn to do this and if we are there to rescue them the first second they cry, then it will just take longer in the end.  My DH and I were just talking last night about the long road (pu/pd, pat/shh - all of it!!) we have had and how it is worth it to have LO sleeping really well at night and seeming to be working toward sleeping all the way through the night.  And I know with my 3YO, he has very healthy sleep habits (except, alas, he is dropping is nap - sob, sob!!) and it has made our lives so much easier not to fight him to go to bed.  Anyway, it would be sad to alienate a mom who needs help because she is afraid to ask questions or look for suggestions because she thinks she might not fit in on the board.  Most are desparate by the time they come to these board and need lots of TLC.  I know I did about 4 months ago!!  Thanks for your thoughts, though - I do understand where you are coming from.

[Colin Macs Mom]

CLJK, you're totally right. A lot of parents do think that they are supposed to prevent crying altogether, and that's just silly. Talk about setting yourself up to fail! Babies do cry, and a lot of it is healthy - part of growing up and developing. It always makes me sad when people think they're failing as parents because their LO cries (mantra, fussy, whatever). I'm glad though that you do understand why using the term CIO isn't preferable for the sake of others. Thanks for that.