Cluster & Dream Feeding Support/Chat

[Lªuren]

Hi Trigirl

Here is the suggested routine from the BW book;

once in every 3hr period you are looking for a nap from her, you 3hr cycle may look like this;
    E 7am
     A 7.30am (inc. a 10 - 10min at the end of this 'A' time for wind down for her nap)*
     S 8.30 - 1.5hr   if shorter and you haven't been able to extend then you would do EASA

    E 10am
     A 10.30am (inc. a 10 - 10min at the end of this 'A' time for wind down for her nap)*
     S 11.30 - 1.5hr   if shorter and you haven't been able to extend then you would do EASA

    E 1300
     A 1330 (inc. a 10 - 10min at the end of this 'A' time for wind down for her nap)*
     S 1430 - 1.5hr   if shorter and you haven't been able to extend then you would do EASA

    E 1600
     A 1630
     S 1730 - catnap only  30 - 45mins!!!

    E 1900 & bath or vice versa    or   E 1800   &    2000  with bath in the middle (clusterfeeding)
     S 1930                                       S 2030

    DF between 10 -11 https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=54662.0

HTH's

[TJ & Stephy's Mommy]

Hi
I have a question about dropping the DF.

I know I should've started dropping the DF when LO was 7 months but I had too much stuff going on at that time and I know I have to start right now since LO is 8.5 months old.  Anyways, I printed out the procedures on how to stop the DF. 

My question is if I increase by one ounce on day 1 for the first bottle but LO does not finish the additional ounce is that ok?  Will he eventually be able to finish that extra ounce in the first 3 days?  Also, will there be nightwakings since he will be losing an ounce on the first night?  I want to prepare myself in case he has a nightwaking when we start this.

TIA

[Lªuren]

Mel

If it were me and he didn't take the extra oz at the first bottle, I would ofer it at the 2nd bottle as well - until he was alble to take it at the first bottle.

I would hope that over a few days to a week he would want the additional oz's during the day.

[TJ & Stephy's Mommy]

Calums_Mum,

I started to wean the DF Monday night.  However, it seems that DS is eating less of his milk during the day now.  That extra oz that I've been adding during the day is not being taken at all.  Now I have 2 extra oz to add during the day but DS is not that hungry to take it.  So far, his first bottle every morning, he will only take 4oz of the 7oz and during the rest of the day he's leaving 1oz almost every feeding.  Is this behaviour normal?  He's definitely not getting enough during the day as he's been waking up at night but not hungry. The first night was great, he slept through but now he's been waking up every night and having a hard time resettling.

Do you think I can just make up those lost calories with solids?  Will that help keep him full during the night?

Thanks!!

[Lªuren]

Mel

Is he on the right sized teat, etc.......

You can make it up with yogurt or custard, etc.  Have you resorted to feeding during the night?

What has your general routine been like this week? with amounts of food and oz, etc.....

[cindyhpark]

Hi, my dd is 2 weeks old... does cluster feeding work this early?  We're doing EASY and her schedule last night looked like this:
7:30p EAS
10:30p wake to feed
11:30p crying and woke up  fussy until 12:45 a for DF
if I'm trying to cluster feed should I feed at 7:30, 9:30, 11:30, DF at 1a?  and does she get smaller amounts (pumped milk and formula) at the 9:30 and 11:30 feed?  thanks for your help!!!

[Lªuren]

Hi there welcome to the boards.

This is taken from one of Tracys books. More here on Cluster and dreamfeeding --> https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=54662.0


"I recommend tanking up as soon as your baby comes home from the hospital, but you can start using both strategies any time during the first eight weeks and the dream feed until seven or eight months (by which time your baby is drinking between 175 and 250 ml (six and eight ounces) per feed and getting a fair amount of solid food). Some infants are harder to tank up than others. They might take early evening feeds but not take a dream feed. If that describes your baby, and you have to choose one, concentrate on the dream feed only. Don’t bother clustering. For example, you feed your baby at 6, give her a bath and do the bedtime rou¬tine, and top her off at 7—she’ll probably only take a few ml/ounces. Then at 10 or 11 (if you’re normally up that late, or if your partner is) try to give her a dream feed—never later than 11. But don’t give up after one or two nights. It’s unrealistic to think you can change a baby’s habit in less than three days, and for some infants it takes as long as a week. There are no miracles here, but persistence usually pays off."

You are looking to feed as follows:

So, one in  every 3hr period you are looking for a nap from her, you 3hr cycle may look like this;
    E 7am
     A 7.30am (inc. a 10 - 10min at the end of this 'A' time for wind down for her nap)*
     S 8.30 - 1.5hr   

    E 10am
     A 10.30am (inc. a 10 - 10min at the end of this 'A' time for wind down for her nap)*
     S 11.30 - 1.5hr   

    E 1300
     A 1330 (inc. a 10 - 10min at the end of this 'A' time for wind down for her nap)*
     S 1430 - 1.5hr   

    E 1600
     A 1630
     S 1730 - catnap only  30 - 45mins

    E 1900 & bath or vice versa    or    E 1800   &    2000  with bath in the middle (clusterfeeding)
     S 1930                                       S 2030

    DF between 10 -11 https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=54662.0

Dreamfeed to be as close to 10pm as possible, 1am is too late.


Hth's

[Mum2Connor]

Hi my DS will be 7 months on 15 October and I'm wondering if the DF is starting to result in him taking less formula @ 7am feed. We always offer 240mls at each feed which he sometimes finishes.

E.g. last 3 days has only taken 130-140mls, previous week took anywhere b/w 140 & 190 ml (these amounts include formula used to make up his cereal mixed with 1/4 cube fruit).  He usually sleeps 1 to 1.5 hours, but has woken early @ 9.30am.  I've tried to extend with PUPD (which I hardly ever have to use and adapt when I do as he gets too stimulated) but to no avail.  The rest of day then is then a bit messed up with v.short A time after 11am E (just managing to give him lunch) and down early due to lack of earlier sleep.  So down 12pm, talking till 12.30pm, awake 1.30pm, try to end  but wants to be up.  E @ 3pm, dinner @ 4pm.  Offer catnap at 4.30pm per tired signs, but has dropped this the last 4 days (and on and off for 6 weeks but not consistently for a week).

Sorry for if TMI,  my Qs are:
is the smaller amount drank @7am due to the DF?; and is this then leading to shorter sleep in the AM cos he's hungry? (Although, he doesn't seem hungry when waking, and is fine to wait till 11am where he drank 210ml on Fri, 140ml Sat and 160ml today).

I know Tracy suggests cutting the DF back around 7 months.  Could you please advise what we should do?

Thanks
Sonja

[Lªuren]

Sonja

Yes, we suggest cutting out the dream feed at around seven months, as your baby starts to get solid food in him. If you continue to give it, you’re working against the introduction of solid food, because for every 25 5Th/Ounce of extra liquid your baby takes, he won’t be hungry for 25 gram/an ounce of solid food. However, as the box indicates, when you cut out the dream feed, you have to add the same number of ml or grams or ounces to the day feed. If you don’t, your baby will wake up at night.

More info in Tracy's book "SAYP - p123".  Every baby is different though so there may be variations of the above "how to" that work - including dropping it cold turkey.


The process of cutting out the dream feed – usually around 7 months – is to be done in 3-day increments, to insure that your baby makes up during the day what you’re taking away at night.

Day 1: Add one ounce to the first feed of the day, and take away 1 ounce from the dream feed that night.  If you’re breastfeeding, go back to clustering so that you get more calories in.  Give the dream feed (now 1 ounce less) half an hour earlier, at 10:30 instead of 11.

Day 4:  Add one ounce to the first feed, one to the second, and take away two ounces from the dream feed.  Give the dream feed (two ounces less) at 10.

Day 7:  Add once ounce to the first feed, once to the second, one to the third, take away three ounces from the dream feed, and give it at 9:30.

Days 10 (dream feed at 9pm), 14 ( 8 :30) 17 (8:00 ) and 20 (7:30):  By continuing every 3 days to add ounces during the day and take away the same amount from the dream feed, you will end up doing a feed at 7:30 with only a few ounces.

Note:  If your little one doesn’t take that extra ounce(s) that is offered during the day, that is ok….they might not take to drinking more right away during the day, but it is there if they want it.

[Mum2Connor]

Thanks Lauren.  We'll give it go.

Sonja

[TJ & Stephy's Mommy]

Mel

Is he on the right sized teat, etc.......

You can make it up with yogurt or custard, etc.  Have you resorted to feeding during the night?

What has your general routine been like this week? with amounts of food and oz, etc.....

Hi Calums_Mum,

We are using Avent size 4 teats (for 6+ months).  We've been using them since DS was 6 months.

I haven't resorted to feed at night.  I just turn him over in his crib and he's willing to go to sleep but it is restless and he does squirm alot during the night.  But in the morning he is still not taking the whole bottle (formula) .

Our routine for this week looks like this:

EAT     8am - drank about 3-4 oz
          9am - 3 cubes of fruit with 2 tablespoon of cereal
SLEEP  10am-11:30am/12pm
EAT     12pm - drank 5oz on Sunday but today he drank only 3oz
          Today, I introduced a lunch 2 tablespoon cereal/2tablespoon formula and 2 tablespoon fruit (before never had a lunch only breakfast and dinner)
SLEEP  2:30pm/3pm - 4pm/4:30
EAT     4pm/4:30pm drank 4-5oz
          5:30pm - 3 cubes of veggies with 3 tablespoon rice porridge and 1 tablespoon puree turkey
EAT     7pm/7:30pm - drank 4oz yesterday but today he drank 6oz
SLEEP  7:30pm/8pm
DF       9:30pm - drank 4 oz (the entire bottle!)

By my calculations, yesterday he drank 23oz and today he has drank only 21 oz.  Normally, before we started to wean the DF he would drink about 30oz/day plus his solids.  He was a good eater.

Does this routine look ok to you?  Is there something else I can do to keep his calories up so that he will sleep better at night?

[Lªuren]

I would say the DF is affecting the morning bottle, but it is like a vicious circle! Can you take away an oz from the DF and add to the morning bottle? (have we already discussed this because I am getting de ja vu here  )  It is difficult because by this time solids are usually firmly established i.e. 3 meals.

Have you ever tried offering breakfast just after (or a least the amount of time to prepare the breakfast) the morning bottle? Might mean bigger appetite for lunch?

For lunch I would offer something similar to what you are offering for dinner, I believe lunch should be their 'main' meal of the day + dessert i.e yogurt, custard, etc....

What is rice porridge? Is it the same as baby rice? Kind of flaky when dry? If so it has no calorific value.   Have you tried things like mashed potato, rice or pasta with the pureed meat.

From the food routine you have given, I think you need to add more calcium and calorific foods, but I will give Natasha a shout and get her opinion as well if you don't mind.   

When did you start weaning? Do you offer any snacks? What stage are you at? ie purees, small lumps, lumpier, etc.......

Lauren

[*Natasha*]

Have you introduced any dairy yet? What meat have you given so far? I think you need to get some more milk into him during the day and at night to fill him up. What happens if you don't give the DF does he wake during the night? I wouldn't up the solids at this stage until her is drinking more during the day.

[TJ & Stephy's Mommy]

Today was a very weird day.  DS has had a total of 25oz (which includes his DF).  Yesterday was probably the worse day of our stopping the DF....DS only had a total of 15oz and of course woke up in the middle of the night hungry.  I had to give him a bottle since he wouldn't go back to sleep.  Anyways, yes, I have been adding extra ounces to his daytime bottles while reducing the DF bottle as per the instructions in the BWSAYP.

Our pediatrician said no cows milk until after 1 year but I am allowed to introduce yoguart and cheese.  I haven't done it yet.  I was planning to do it this weekend.  We have already had chicken and turkey and I was going to do tofu but decided on the dairy first. 

Yes I have tried not doing the DF.  But DS will wakeup looking for his DF.   

We started introducing solids when DS was about 6 months old.  We are currently doing small lumps/lumpier foods and for snacks we eating teething biscuits and Gerber puffs.  We tried soft fruit/veggies but DS wasn't too interested in holding the mesh bag for long periods of time.

Rice porridge is watered down overcooked rice.  It's like making steamed (long grain white) rice on the stove top but triple the water amount to make it soupy and you overcook it so that the rice is mushy.  I don't know.....my mom says most Asian families serve this to their babies so I did what she suggested 

[SamWilliams1510]

I have been trying for the past week to dream feed my 4week old ff daughter but she just wont suckle. 

It takes a good 10 mins to evenutally prise her lips open and get the bottle in but she wont actually take the bottle even after I wiggle it around.  If she does have a quick suck then she doesnt swallow and it all dribbles down the side of her mouth a few minutes later. Not sure whether she just cant be dream fed? 

Should she be fast asleep or half awake - or does it not make a difference?  Do some babies just not dream feed?

Thanks for any help

Sam & Ava (4weeks)