Ready to go from 3 to 2 bottles?

[KathrynK]

Hi there
Dd is driving me bonkers lately with her milk intake and after reading the FAQs I wonder if she is telling me to drop another bottle? I would be grateful for any thoughts if I tell you what's been going on....
6 weeks ago we went from 4 to 3 bottles and we were chugging along happily having about 8oz each bottle until 14 days ago. This coincided with a trip to my parents and tooth no. 5 turning up. She would have between 2-4oz and then stop and refuse to allow the bottle near her. We had gone from Avent 4 to Variflow, we are now back on Avent 4 with an extra hole, we tried cartons of ready-made in case it was the water at my parents' place making it taste different, we tried teething gel before each bottle. Sometimes she would shove the bottle away and protest, sometimes she would take it in her mouth but just roll it around or chew on it.
(The good news is that none of this has affected her sleeping- she still sleeps well all night long  )
We have been home for 9 days now and the tooth has been through for about 10 days, but she is still very hit and miss. She never has more than 4-5 oz for her first bottle, which drives me mad as she's had nothing all night, Monday night she had 7.5oz before bed and then the next night had 2! Even when she only has 2oz at bedtime she still won't have more than 5 the next morning. (I wasn't supposed to introduce dairy till 10 months but as we are so close I have started during the last 2 weeks as I was worried about her intake.) I can't put my finger on why this is happening, it feels like she is saying oh for god's sake not milk again..!
Does this sound like I should drop that bottle in the middle of the day?  Or does anyone have any other marvellous ideas?
thanks in advance
kathryn x

[The Vern]

Afraid I'm not coming with any solutions or tips, rather I'm in the very same boat.  DD will be 10 months this week.  For the past while, she's been on and off, mostly off mind you, with the afternoon and evening bottles.  Morning bottle is generally pretty good anywhere from 6-8 oz.  Afternoon bottle has been ranging too, from 4-8, but the worst is the evening bottle, which sometimes only is 2 oz. I then started giving her the bottle before her dinner, but even so, she sometimes will only take 2 oz. Some nights, I'm able to get another 1-2 oz in her after dinner and before bed.  Anyway, I'm interested in this thread as well, so hopefully someone wise will come along with some tips, if this all means it's time to drop a bottle, then how is this done, and which one is dropped? Also, to ensure enough fluid intake, do I give her regular milk instead, or does that still have to wait a couple of months?  Thanks to all.  maria

[KathrynK]

hi maria
welcome on board with this one! is it driving you crazy too?
the fluid intake thing does concern me too- last week on 2 occasions she had a dry nappy after 90 minutes- not the first time this has happened but her "lady bits" look a bit red and sore too so I wonder if her wee is a bit strong (sorry if this is tmi for anyone!). I offer her water with every meal but she isn't really taking any more in so don't know what else to do.. let's hope a marvellous BW out there can help!

[KathrynK]

oh god this is so upsetting- today she has had a total of 9oz, she would only have 2 at bedtime and that was a struggle. I can't understand why she would go from averaging 25oz a day to this virtually overnight. I know she is not getting enough fluid as she is constipated now and I don't know what to do 

[* Paula *]

Hello ladies,

Hugs, sorry to hear that you are going through such a rough time.

I can tell you that at 10 months we were on 2 bottles a day, and offered yogurts as an afternoon snack at 14:00pm.  We dropped to 2 bottles a day due to the fact that our DS was not interested in his 14:00 bottle at all.  If you feel your lo may be ready to drop a bottle, I would suggest the afternoon one, but will need to make up the lost calcium with a yogurt or cheeses etc.

From what you are both saying, it definitley sounds like your lo's are teething.  We went through it all with our DS, and he had complete bottle strikes where he did not have a bottle for 5 days, he refused every one point blank.

I too was really worried about his milk intake and fluid intake, but my HV said to me that you cannot force him, and if he does not want it, to offer it to him again at a later stage, but not to make too much of an issue about it.

We kept on offering him his bottles at his usual times, and after about 5 days he started taking them again.  He still goes through phases now at 16 months where he does not want his milk - going through this phase at the moment 

The only suggestion I can make is to offer it at your usual times, and if they do not want it then take it away and try a bit later.

Kathryn, for the constipation have you tried offering prune juice?  We find this helps our DS really well, and funnily enough, he loves the taste of it 

I know it is hard, but this phase will pass.

Please keep us posted on how you are getting on.

Paula x

[KathrynK]

Hi Paula
thanks for your advice and big hugs- I needed them tonight!
My gut feeling is that she isn't ready to drop a bottle and there is something underlying that I haven't put my finger on yet. I tried her this afternoon with a little bit of milk in a Nuby beaker and she seemed initially keen but it came out a bit fast for her. I am wondering if it is the bottles that are the problem. I have put an extra hole in the teat as I said already, but maybe it's not enough for her. Do you think I should try the beaker for a few days to see what happens?
She is still teething as the pair of the one which arrived 2 weeks ago is now about to break through so I did wonder, but teething gel doesn't seem to make a difference. I wish she could talk! (well she says mama but you know what I mean  )
I am seeing HV tomorrow for Sophie's 8-12 month developmental check so I will talk it through with her too. Am driving DH mad as I get dead upset each bedtime at the moment.. It's not very fun here in the evenings around 7pm 

[* Paula *]

Hi Kathryn,

I would persever with the Nuby for a few more days, perhaps try sitting her up a little more when feeding her, that way, it is not hitting the back of her throat too quickly.

If you are finding that the teething gel is not working, have you tried a pain med when she is really fussy and not happy?

I know that it is hard, but try not to let it get to you, as Sophie can sense your anticipation and it can make her a little more apprehensive - does this make sense.

My health visitor told me when I was so worried about him not drinking his milk, that a baby does not have the ability to starve themself and that they will eat / drink when they are ready and hungry.

I am not sure if you do a dreamfeed or not, but if you don't try giving her a dreamfeed tonight to see if you can get a few extra calories in her.  We did this, just so that we knew he had a bit in his tummy.

Here are some more {{{{hugs}}}}} - I know it is hard, but just remember, this time will pass.

Keep us posted on how you get on.

Paula x

[KathrynK]

hello again

re. teething- we've never had to give her calpol or similar, as she's been very good and hasn't really suffered, in fact one tooth we were totally unaware of until we saw it one day! (I know we are very lucky to be in this position after 5 teeth and it doubtless won't continue!) anyway the fact that she's showing no discomfort at any time makes me wonder if it is really the teeth. Could it have been teeth for these whole 2 weeks?
I totally totally agree with you about babies picking up on negative feelings and am trying soooo hard to daydream about other things while I feed her, but after 2 weeks it is hard not to be apprehensive! You would lol if I told you what I've made myself think about whilst trying to feed her....
We never had any success with the dreamfeed, she wouldn't feed whilst asleep so we had to wake her and she never took more than 3oz so we stopped at 9 weeks at which point she slept right through and has done ever since. She still hates to be woken so I am reluctant to disrupt her sleep even though I hear what you're saying about getting the fluids in her.
sorry to take up all your time tonight- you have NO idea how much I have missed this board over the last 2 weeks!
x

[* Paula *]

I hear you on the calpol etc, and agree would not give it unless necessary.

Perhaps it might be worth while try to go to 2 bottles tomorrow and see how it goes.  You have nothing to lose as she does not seem to be taking much at the moment.  Try and give it a couple of days and see how it goes, you can always go back to 4 bottles if she does not show any signs of improvement.  You could also try offering her a few oz in a sippy with her meals just to try and increase the amount she takes.

Has she been unwell lately?  i.e. cold, cough etc?  When my DS has an ear infection his liquid intake also seems to drop as it hurts to suck? I am just thinking here.

[The Vern]

Kathryn - I feel for you with the struggle you're going through. Today was a pretty good day, I must say. She took 8 oz in the am, 6 oz in the afternoon and 3.5 at night, so for a total of 17.5 I think I should be pleased as punch! I'm wondering about eliminating the afternoon bottle though, since it's the evening bottle she is consistently less interested in...Or do we assume if I drop the afternoon, she'll automatically increase intake at night? I have been wondering about the teething too, because so far she only has the two lowers, and she's sooo due for another one popping through. But same here, we hardly noticed when the first two came in, so I doubt that would be affecting her.  Anyway, good luck. Let me know how the Nuby beaker works out.  Thanks, Tom Tom's Mum for your advice.

[KathrynK]

morning all

well we've had 6oz this morning which was very exciting 
17.5oz sounds fab- hooray for you! can't believe only 2 weeks ago I was fretting if she had less than 24oz- I can only dream now..
anyway thinking about your ear infection suggestion Paula- dh started a bad cold 14 days ago, dd had a dribbly nose for about 2 days and a bit of a cough but nothing I was concerned about, although this did coincide with the beginning of the bottle strike. Do you think she could have an ear infection with no other symptoms? she has been touching her ears a bit this last week but I thought it was just a new "thing". Will ask HV this afternoon and maybe make a dr's appt. will feel like baaaaad mummy if dd has been poorly all this time 
thanks again
k x

[* Paula *]

Kathryn, It could just be that with her having a bit of a cold, she feels really stuffy, and is not interested in sucking as much cause her nose is congested.

When Thomas has an ear infection he usually is very cranky, and refuses his milk and a lot of the time his solids.  When he does not eat I know that he is not well as he is a really big eater.

That is why it made me think that perhaps she is not well.  It may not be an ear infection as Thomas tends to pull his ears and touch them when he is teething, it could just be that the cold / cough has made her feel like she can't be bothered - does this make sense?

Let me know how you got on at the Health Visitors.

The Vern - I know what you mean, when we were going through issues when he took that amount of milk we would celebrate.  Like at the moment he is teething again, and has only drunk 5 oz of milk today  luckily he loves his cereal and yogurts, so were able to make up the calories with that.  It is so stressful when the refuse to drink, but like I said to Kathryn, they won't starve themselves, and will eat when they are hungry, and it is a phase and they soon go back to guzzling their oz down again.

Keep us posted on how you get on.

Paula x

[KathrynK]

Hi Paula
well I took lo to dr's this morning and her ears are just fine, which is good news. Dr and HV both think it's teething and thinking about it more I think you are right and hopefully once this stupid tooth finally appears she will drink a bit more. HV explained that although teething gel doesn't make a difference, it could be not her gums that hurt, but her whole jaw and that's why she pulls her ears, and why she doesn't want to suck. This makes sense! I am sorry I didn't listen to you straight away!
Anyway today she has had 16 oz which is an improvement and I think she would have had more this afternoon except I only made up 4oz cos I was sick of chucking loads away!
I am going to stick with 3 bottles for the time being and just ride it out and try to chill! Am off now to have huuuuge glass of red wine now and dh is making dinner which smells yummy!
thanks again for all your kind and very wise words xxxx 

[* Paula *]

Hi Kathryn,

I am so pleased to hear that she is fine and well 

I am pleased that you were able to get 16oz in her today, sounds like things are getting better.

Don't be so hard on yourself, it is so difficult to know what is wrong with them when they are not happy - you won't believe how many times we have been to the doctors - they actually know us on 1st name basis now    But it is rather to be safe than sorry.

Even now when Thomas refuses to eat / drink his milk, I still stress, we can't help doing it - we are mothers, we are going to worry about them all the time.

Enjoy your glass of wine, that sounds good, I think I may join you in that one.  DP is getting us an indian take away tonight, so am looking forward to that 

Please keep me posted on how Sophie is doing.

Paula xx

[KathrynK]

good evening
just back on as I wondered how maria's dd is doing- any sign of any teeth? 17 oz today (including 3 in weetabix) so am much more relaxed than I was 3 days ago!
k x