5 month old - Waking every hour

[angelina and andrew's mum]

in the book it does say that short naps can affect their sleep. start to work on that first then it says the nightime sleep will fall in2 place-dont know if it always works like that but its worth a try.

[Lockie & Sam's Mummy]

hi andrea,

it could be the short naps affecting his night-time sleep. however, in your first post, your lo was having good naps during the day but still had the same night waking problems so maybe it's more than that?

i think there are two issues right now. firstly, regarding the short naps, it can take a while to transition to the 4hr easy so don't be discouraged if you have some weird napping for a while, it should settle down after you've made the full transition (could take a couple of weeks or more). ultimately, being on the right easy routine should help.

secondly, the night wakings. i'm really not sure about those. what does your lo do when he wakes? does he cry/scream for you or does he just potter about in his cot? has he reached any developmental milestones lately? is he dependent on his soother and/or feeding to fall asleep during the night?

[Nani]

Hi Livvy,
Thanks for your reply.  I wish I knew what the underlying issue is with my LO.  Last night for example, he woke up 3 times and every time he woke, he wanted to feed. I tried changing him, pu/pd, shush pat, and tried giving him his soother, he didn't want it.  All he would do is cry and scream in my arms.  Is he going through a growth spurt?  Maybe, he's almost 6 months old, but that doesn't solve the other issues occurring before last night.  I am very frustrated with his night wakings and I can see that they affect his day sleep too.  I have tried to transition him on a 4 hour EASY... could this be affecting his sleep.  I also thought it might be a food issue, I am BF and I try giving him an extra ounce or two of formula or BM.  This hasn't solve the issue either.  I am really perplexed at his behaviour    Any ideas ... solutions??
Andrea

[Lockie & Sam's Mummy]

hi andrea,

the 3 times you fed him, did he take a full feed each time or did he just take a little bit and/or fall asleep on the breast/bottle?

if he's taking full feeds each time, then sounds like he isn't getting enough during the day. seems a bit early for the 6-month growth spurt but that's possible too. is he taking the extra ounces you're giving him during the day? if so, perhaps he needs even more? have you started him on solids? it's not recommended until 6mo but some big babies actually need it earlier (see your ped or maternal/child health nurse for advice on this).

if he didn't take a full feed, then sounds like he might be using the breast/bottle as a prop (see the props board for loads of info about how to stop this). as for the underlying night waking issue, i admit, i'm stumped! when my lo has woken at night in the past & not from hunger, it's usually due to:

• overtiredness - solved by moving to 4hr easy & earlier bedtime
• breast dependency - stopped feeding at night & soothed instead
• teething - just rode it out, lots of cuddles & i hear bonjela works well
• dev milestones eg. rolling - just rode it out, lots of practice during the day

sorry that isn't much help! maybe one of the night waking moderators has some suggestions? or one of the other mums?

[Hayden's mom]

I'm having similar issues with my 3.5 mth old - I'm concerned it could be too much daytime sleep.  My schedule looks very similar to yours.  I've tried everything - nursing, not nursing, dream feed, no dream feed, no catnap, with catnaps... Nothing seems to change it.

[Lockie & Sam's Mummy]

the typical hours of sleep can be found in a separate post from the naps faq:
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=3195.0

basically it has 3mo on 5hrs of naps per day & 6mo on 2.25hrs of naps per day.  my son is 5.5mo & averages 3.5hrs per day. he takes 3 naps of about 1-1.25hrs each. we haven't dropped the 3rd nap yet as he still seems to need it.

[Nani]

Hi Livvy,

Thank you so much for all your time and effort to help us out 

Yes he is taking in full feeds.  When I top him up during the day, I usually give him 1 1/2 - 2 oz. of BM or formula.  He takes it, but towards the end, he usually plays with the nipple.  I have done a yield and I get about 4 - 4 1/2 oz., which I think is not enough for him.  So he definitely needs the top up.  According to the Tracy's book, a 4 - 6 month old should take between 5-8 oz. per feed, which my son is doing.  Tracy also says that babies this age should have 5 feeds, plus the dream feed (which we don't do).  He does however usually feed 6 times a day and I tank him up in the evenings.  My son is about a week away from 6 months and this weekend we will start solids.  But I still don't understand why he is waking so frequently during the night, last night he woke up at 2 am, I feed him, then again at 5 am, I tried to avoid feeding him so I can replenish my BM, I ended up giving him 5 oz of formula, he took it and then woke up at 8 am wanting more.  Maybe he is going through his 6 months growth spurt 

We have been trying to move to a 4 hour EASY, so far we are at about 1.45 hours and he sleeps for about 1.5 hours twice daily and one 45 minute nap.  So he averages about 3.5 like your son.  I too find he does need that 3rd nap. 

Developmentally, he found his feet and want to hold them every time I give him a diaper change.  I give him extra time with that. 

Teething could be an issue, everything is in his mouth and he is drooling.  We have to wait and see for that.

This night waking is exhausting 

Thanks again Livvy!

Andrea

[Lockie & Sam's Mummy]

hi andrea,

not a problem, i've had so much help on the boards, i figure it's my turn to try & help out

if your lo is taking 2 full feeds at night, then his night-wakings seem to be due to hunger. otherwise, he would just take a little bit & fall back to sleep again. so it does seem like it could be a feeding issue. could you post your current routine? (don't worry if it isn't the full 4hr easy yet)

six feeds a day does sound a lot. does this include the night feeds or only the day feeds? also, does this include the tanking up feed(s)? we don't do the dreamfeed either. my ds has 4 feeds a day + 1 tank-up/top-up feed at bedtime. he either sleeps through without a feed or wakes for 1 feed (time varies). our routine - on a good day! - is something like this:

7:00am wake-up & bf
8:00am breakfast, solids
9:00am nap (1-1.25hrs)
10:15am wake-up & bf
12:30pm nap (1-1.25hrs)
1:45pm wake-up & bf
4:00pm nap (1-1.25hrs)
5:00pm wake-up & bf
6:00pm dinner, solids
6:30pm bath, massage
7:00pm top-up bf & bed

we introduced solids about a week ago but were already on this schedule for a couple of weeks before that (minus the solids). anyhow, hope this helps!

[Nani]

Hi Again!

For the past two nights, he has been taking in two full feeds.  Here is what his current schedule looks like (remember this is the past couple of days):

9:00 am   wake-up & BF
10:45 am nap (45 min - 1.5 hours)
12:30 am wake-up & BF with 1-2oz top-up of formula or BM
2:00 pm nap (1.5 hours)
4:00 pm wake-up & BF with 1-2oz top-up of formula or BM
6:00 pm nap (45 minutes)
6:15 pm BF with 1-2oz top-up of formula or BM
7:00 pm bath
8:00 pm BF with 1-2oz top-up of formula or BM
8:30 pm bed

1 - 2 am wake up and BF no top-up

4 - 5 am wake up and BF no top-up

Today, I have tried to increase my supply by pumping after he feeds and I will continue to do so for the next three days.  We are also planning to introduce solids within the next couple of days.  I have been trying to wait until six months.  I also forgot to mention that we just started in introduce formula (a week or so ago), I was very sad when this happened, since I wanted to EBF for a year.  But when he would cry and scream after he was done both breasts, I knew that he still wanted more and I did not have BM to give him.



Andrea

[Lockie & Sam's Mummy]

hi andrea,

your routine looks good! looks like you're well on the way to a 4hr easy

sorry to hear you had to stop ebf before you wanted to but good on you for doing the right thing for your little one - you've already given him a great start by ebf for almost 6 months!

when i want to increase my supply, i usually express on one side while ds feeds on the other side. since i get a letdown in both breasts at the same time, it makes expressing a lot easier.

also, i would increase the top-up amounts if possible just in case he'll take some more. if your lo still wakes 2 or more times a night for a feed (1 time is still okay at this age) after you've increased the top-ups & introduced solids, let me know & we can re-assess the situation.

alternatively, if he stops needing feeds at night but the night-wakings continue, then we may need to look at other possible causes for the wake-ups.

hth & good luck!

[Nani]

hi livvy,

thanks again, you have  been a great help and very supportive 

two nights ago, my ds woke up once, it was great and happy for the both of us.  last night was a different story, he woke up 3 am to feed, then again at 4, 5, 6, 7 am and i finally fed him after 8 am.    during those wakings, i would give his soother and he would go back to sleep for the hour.  i topped him up all day yesterday and i thought we did good, but there is also something else going on.

livvy, could you explain a little more about increasing your supply.  do you feed your ds on the side you will pump first and the pump while he then feeds on the other side?

Thanks,

Andrea

[Lockie & Sam's Mummy]

hi andrea,

sorry, i forgot that you feed from both sides so it may be a bit more difficult for you. i single-side feed so i express on the side i'm not feeding him on. in that case, perhaps expressing the way you're doing now (an hour after he feeds) is probably the best option. be sure you express after the first morning feed as your supply is typically highest then.

regarding the wake-ups last night, did you do anything other than give him back his soother? if not, sounds like he may have formed a dependency on it. does he cry because it falls out? does he need it to go to sleep? if so, it may have become a prop & props can often cause night wakings as lo cannot get back to sleep without it. there's lots of info on the props board, maybe have a read there & see if you're in the same boat.

hth!

[Nani]

Hi Livvy,

During the night, I try pu/pd, shush-pat, or the soother.  There are times he does not want the soother and can go to sleep without it.  The soother may have very well become a prop and I do not want to rule anything out.  The soother is only limited to the crib and car.  Most times, he spits it out within 5 -10 minutes, other times, he has it in a lot longer.

Last night was interesting... my ds went to bed at 7:45 pm and woke up at 10:45 pm, he was hungry (I hear his tummy growling), so I fed him.  Then he woke up at 5 am, and I fed him.  Then he got up an hour later and wanted his soother,  and then woke up at 8 am for his morning feed.  How could he be hungry after the 5 am feed, my breasts were full?    The thing that has me, is the night wakings are at different times, they are never consistant.  So, food and soothing could be the culprit!  I wish I could get to the bottom of this.

Thanks again 
Andrea

[Lockie & Sam's Mummy]

hi andrea,

sorry for taking so long to reply, we've been having our own little bedtime dramas how have things been going with your lo? are you still experiencing the night wakings?

since he's waking multiple times & not always for a feed, then i would agree with you that the problem is more than just a feeding issue. he doesn't appear to be able to self-soothe when he wakes in the night. are you sure you're not rushing in too soon? are you giving him a chance to soothe himself first?

unless he's teething and/or ill, i would persist with using pu/pd to get him to re-settle. if you need any info or help with pu/pd, there's loads available on the pu/pd board. also, i would seriously look on the props board to determine whether or not the soother has become a prop.

hang in there!

[Nani]

Hi!

Thanks again for your reply!  I wish I could say things are better, but they are the same, typically waking up 2 times a night, except for last night, which was every 45 minutes to an hour. 

I fed him several times last night, other times he would cry in his sleep and when we would go to him and do a pu/pd he would go back to sleep and when we didn't go to him, the crying got longer and louder.  I really don't understand what is going on with him 

Yesterday, I fed him as usual, until 6 pm, then it seem to be every two hours, but I also gave him top up's after almost each feed.  Could it be a growth spurt?  Could a growth spurt only occur during the evening hours?

Could it be developmental issues? He seems to be changing very much over the past week, enjoying his activity play station more, jumping in his jumper, rolling to side to side, starting to sit on his own for short periods of time.  Could these activities cause the night wakings?  But what I don't understand is is why is this going on for so long, it's been almost a month now and I just can't seem to wrap my head around it.

Livvy, other moms, moderators, do you have any advice for us???

Thanks,

Andrea