8 week old NW's

[jcsmom]

Last night was terrible. She would not go for her catnap in her swing so I tried to rock her. She slept for 10 mins. So I got her up got her jammies on and tried to get her down for the night. She didn't sleep til after 7pm though. Then up at 8:30n 11:30 2:30 where she was up until 4:30. The she went back until 6:06. No dozing or anything. I am so tired and at a loss as to why she is waking so frequently and why for so long. I didn't sleep a single wink last night. It's killing us.

[jcsmom]

Anyone see anything I don't? Could it be my breast milk? I am seriously sleep deprived.

[becj86]

I see a night when she actually slept 'for the night' at 7-6. She's OT, sure but maybe you've got a great opportunity to start off the day from 6 and do your full A time.

Could it be my breast milk?

What's your letdown and supply like? Forceful Let-Down Problems Oversupply mimicing reflux!
Is she producing plenty of wet nappies? Poos are yellow and seedy?

[jcsmom]

We started off the day with full A time and she gave me a 40 minute nap. So today is all off kilter again being almost 3pm and she's had 3 naps already. So when I put her down at 3:45 I am not sure what to do. I know she'll attempt a long nap. How did it get so off kilter?
Her diapers are always really wet. Her poos have been plentiful but very stinky and runny. Sometimes seedy but mostly not. Sometimes a greeny colour.

[becj86]

Have a read:
http://breastfeeding.hypermart.net/toomuchmilk.html
http://kellymom.com/bf/got-milk/supply-worries/fast-letdown/
We had this and the frequent wakings and the screaming settled shortly after changing nursing positions and block feeding.

[jcsmom]

Last night was by far the worst. We tried to get her down for bed at 6pm because her last nap ended at 4:50. She wanted none of it and wouldn't go to sleep til 7:30. Then she was up at 9. My husband tried everything. Finally I nursed her and she went down at 11. Then she was up at 12:30-1. Then 2:30. She was up for 2 hours. Just would not sleep. I brought her to bed with me finally and we nursed.  She slept from 4:30-6. I nursed her at all wakings. She nursed and dozed from 6-7:10.
I read through the material and I don't think it's an issue for letdown. How can she survive on such little sleep? Her longest stretch of sleep is now 2 hours and that is in the swing. Yesterday's naps weren't stellar either. Now I am thinking she is just so OT she can't sleep. How do I fix this? She can't survive on 4.5 hours night sleep and 5.5 hours day sleep surely.  I don't even know what to do.

[becj86]

Not oversupply either? The poos sounds like DS' when he had foremilk overload...

What about this: Reflux 101 - General reflux information Alternative diagnoses and Reflux mimics.

Have you any way to get her to sleep that is reliable? I wonder if she sleeps better in the swing because she's not flat - if so, can you put her cot mattress on an incline and see if that helps?

[jcsmom]

She doesn't seem refluxy. But her poos are off. She is just so OT today I am beside myself. 4.5 hours of nightsleep is not good for anyone. I am contemplating letting her sleep in her swing all night. We all need some sleep. Then I wonder if that is why she can't get through 1.5 hours because she is used to falling asleep in there. We let her faLl asleep in there at BT since my DS goes to bed at the same time and it was too hectic. I will read up on the links. Thanks for posting them and helping me. I am so down about the nights. They were so good in comparison. I just don't get why all the sudden change. We were getting at least 5 hours before. I haven't slept at all either so I am a mess.

[becj86]

Ok, How often are you feeding and are you feeding one side at each feed or two? How do you decide when to switch sides?

I just don't get why all the sudden change.

As the gut damage from foremilk overload or reflux gets worse, so do pain and symptoms. DS had an awful time with the foremilk overload until I did block feeding - one breast for 4hr, then the other for the next 4hr is a good starting point. It helps ensure each breast is fully drained and baby is getting plenty of fats which tend to come towards the later end of the feed because they stick to the walls of the milk ducts. You can try massaging your breast near the chest wall before a feed to try and get the fat to release earlier in the feed too.

Honestly, I was told over and over by every medical professional I saw with DS that I didn't have enough milk because he wasn't gaining - he was always hyper from all the sugary watery milk and not gaining because he wasn't getting the amount of fat he could have been if I hadn't been misreading the situation. We all do it when babies are young - every baby is different and they don't come with a manual!

What do you think?

[jcsmom]

Last night was a little better. She had a hard time going down for her catnap and took 1.5 hours trying to fall asleep. Then she slept more than 45 mins so we woke her at the hour and got her down at 7:45. She again took ages to settle, until after 8.
Yesterday
7 (after dozing from 6:15)
S: 8:15-8:45. Then we got her to go back for maybe another 20 mins.
S: 10:15-12:45
S: 2-4
S: 5:15 but didn't fall asleep until 5:30-6:30
S:7:45 but didn't fall asleep until after 8
S 8:15-12:15
S 1-2:30
S 3-4:30
S 5:25-6:25
Dozed while nursing. I am never sure if she is sleeping. Her tongue is not really sucking just flicking and deep breathing. So maybe I just get us up then?
She still is getting longer sleeps in the day in her swing than at night. At night she seems to go all of the sudden in 1.5 hour spurts. When she wakes she's not crying just wide awake and happy wanting to play. She sticks out her tongue and smiles etc. Excitable almost. So I am not sure she's in any pain. I didn't switch sides yesterday to see if that would help. She's gained a ton of weight. She's 4 lbs over her birth weight. She gained 3 lbs from birth to her 6 week appt. So I don't know about the oversupply thing. But I will try block feeding to see if that will help. Thanks for the advice.

[jcsmom]

Can we explore the idea of her being super OT that's why she's waking? She is getting less sleep than my 5 year old. Could 1.15 A time be just too much? Should I let her sleep more in the day to make up for her crummy nights? Everywhere else I read on the internet it says babies her age need a max A time of 45-60 mins. Babywise says 50 mins as do a few other places. She does yawn at 30 and 45 mins then she really doesn't have any other signs. She does get fussy sometimes around the hour mark and glassy eyes but for the most part she's happy. She just can't be getting enough sleep with 8 hours total night sleep. 

[becj86]

If she was super OT, IME (and having had a super OT baby at that age), she would be waking frequently in the first few hours of the night. She seems to be getting a good stretch in first thing at night now, then she's waking every 1.5hr... I don't know why. What do you do when she's up during the night? The wakings seem to be quite long to me, but that could be because I had a fast feeder...

She had 14hr in that 24hr period - here's the 'average: (Typical Amounts of Day and Night Sleep).
1-3 months                    15-18 hours                       Three naps, 1.5 hours each + catnap;
More alert and aware                                               8 hours at night#
of surroundings; able 
to move head
# - This is the longest stretch of night sleep that could be expected before waking for a night feed, and not all the sleep the baby will get at night.  Especially in the early days, babies will wake more often for feeding. 
So she's a little below the 15-18hr... your instinct is telling you to pull her A time back to an hour or so, yes? If so, give it a go - you know her best.

[jcsmom]

Ok so a perfect EASY day.
S: 8:00-9:30
S:10:45-1 (had to resettle at 40 mins I think now our 40 min is OT)woke her
S:2:15-4:15 woke her
S: 5:20 (was super cranky so put down and she was out)
Am I doing the right thing by waking a baby in the day who never sleeps at night? I am tempted to leave her sleeping for her catnap. Yesterday we had to wake her after an hour. She's so tired from her bad nights my mom thinks I am nuts getting her up. Do I run the risk of worse nights by just letting her sleep? I was convinced before her EW's (see ny easy post) were from too much daysleep and now I am convinced it's from major OT.

[becj86]

I'd be surprised if it is major OT - she's not early waking, by the way, that's waking for the day before a 10hr night has passed (including wakings for a feed).

Am I doing the right thing by waking a baby in the day who never sleeps at night?

If you want her to sleep at night, yes. If you leave her sleeping all her long stretches during the day, she will switch day for night completely.

Have you read this: Better Sleep for Babies 101 or this: Sleep Training  - the early days
Have you read any of Tracy's books? I know she explains the theories behind waking a sleeping baby during the day in Baby Whisperer Solves All Your Problems.

[jcsmom]

Thanks for hanging in there with me. It must be frustrating for you to give me advice when I am waffling all the time. I am sorry if I seem all over the place. I am tired and suffering from PPD again for the second time. I promised myself I wouldn't stress over sleep and here I am again. I really appreciate everything you guys are doing to help me.
At night when she wakes she feeds quite quickly. Then after her long stretch lately she's been up every 1.5 hours. I feed her then she's just awake. Happy. I did scale back her A today but now after reading what you wrote I think I am screwed tonight. Here:
S:2:15-4:15 (woke her and she was not impreSsed)
S:5:22-6:22 (same, not happy to be woken)
S: 7:18 after a bath and feeding. She was so tired! So from 2:15-7:13 she may be treating it like her night like the long naps she was having at the end of the day when all this started. Sheesh. So her needs are probably average, just spread out weirdly due to me being inconsistant with her A times. So it's probably not oversupply or OT, just most likely too much day sleep just as she suggested in the EASY forum from day one. Boy people reading this thread must be shaking their heads!