Some EASY questions

[Hayleys]

Thank you!

Things have been very difficult at night at the mo as she has been waking a lot!!! I'm feeling quite tired!! I've been AP ing her back to sleep and we have been able to start the day at 7 am over the last few days.

So, with the AM nap she always used to go to sleep independently for this. Then when she was ill, she started to fall asleep more and more around the 4 hr mark on my lap. I wasn't concerned at the time as she was poorly and was still having a good morning nap!! However since she's been better, the time has been so different and she had often continued doing this. I will try today to put her in the cot and see what happens. I think I try to see if she can manage another 5 mins or so but she then falls asleep on me!!

The last few days our EASY has been different. The first day she stayed awake until 4hrs 15 mins and actually was falling asleep while I was changing her nappy!! It looked like she was goin to do a good nap, but after an hour someone knocked very loudly on our door and this woke her!! I rocked her back to sleep in the pushchair for another hour and she fell back to sleep immediately. She slept for another hour, I'm not sure if she would have woken if I had stopped rocking her though! Anyway, she woke when I did stop at  13:00.  So I then did a 10 min catnap from 4:15-4:25. She did seem to take a while to drop off. Bedtime was then 19:00 and she practically fell asleep on the bottle. She slept will until about 11:00 and then every few hours she was crying and struggling to get back to sleep. This went on until 7:00am. In the morning after 4 hrs A time she was tired. I think in hindsight I should have put her in her cot but instead I kept her awake and she seemed less tired too. I tried to put her down after 4hrs 30 mins. She was showing some signs of tiredness but not like she was about to drop off. However she screamed and got very upset. I actually ended up giving her a bottle just in any attempt to help her to sleep. She fell asleep after 4 hrs 45 mins. Do you think she was OT? So then again, there was a loud noise after an hour into her sleep and she woke but again went back to sleep in the pushchair quickly. Again I rocked her for another hour. This time though she did not wake when I stopped. It was 13:45 though and we needed to go out and also she needed lunch. She certainly could have slept longer though!! So then I still offered a 10 min catnap which she did take time to fall asleep. This was from 4:30-4:40. I tried bedtime for 7pm but she just was not tired. I really struggled to get her down and she didn't fall asleep until 8:10pm. Ugh!!! Perhaps I should have done an EBT in this incident and also just let her sleep for as long as she needed. Would that have been 6 pm and would she still have woken at 7 am though? Bit nervous of a early start especially as she is waking early already. So after this day yesterday the night was awful!!!! She woke during the early evening twice, crying hystericàlly, during the night, every few hours and then at 5am I had to keep rocking her in the pushchair until 7am, but she woke happy!

Ugh!! I feel in such a mess, using the pushchair and all the night wakes!! I just feel very despondent now!! I hope I've made sense, I'm typing on my iPhone and am very tired too!!

I'm thinking after all of this that one nap is what she needs and I'm keen to get her to this ASAP. Could you give me some guidelines, if her Am nap finishes at 1pm, should I just offer 10 min catnap but if it finishes at 2 pm then an EBT would be better? I'm thinking 5 hrs pM A time is too much (1pm-6pm).

Also the morning nap, I just need to offer it to her when she is tired and see how she naps? By the way just want to add that she does have a tooth breaking the surface of the skin which may be affecting her sleep, my hunch is that her routine needs adapting.
Any thoughts really appreciated?

[Hayleys]

Hi

So this morning she seemed tired after 4 hrs A time. I put her in her cot and she fell asleep in minutes on her own. She did a 1 hr 20 min nap. I'm really not sure how to progress with the day now. Could you look at my EASY for the day and say what you would do in my situation.

W. 6:50
E
A. 4hrs
S 10:50 - 12:20
A ?
S 7:00

Should I only give a 10 min catnap to try to withdraw the nap. The other day when she woke at 13:00 she had a 10 min catnap and went down really well for 7pm. Is it too long A time to do this this afternoon? I'm just thinking that really this is the direction we want to be heading in isn't it! Is this what you mean by OT being inevitable and we just have to push through it until it works out?

If you can't reply in time today, could you just advise anyway as I can see that with the 4 hr A time this pattern seems to be immerging. Tricky to know how to increase the AM A time now. I could have maybe tried putting her down at 4hrs 10 this morning!

Ummm...

[Hayleys]

Hi!

Just want to update. Yesterday our day looked like this:

W 6:50
A. 4 hrs
S. 10:50 - 12:10 (1hr 20 mins)
A. 3hrs 55 mins
S  4:05 - 4:15
A. 2 hrs 35 mins
S  6:50 pm ( fell asleep on bottle)

So last wake she still had wake up but she was easier to settle. They were 22:00, 2:00 and 6:00. At 6:00 I actually put her in the pushchair and rock her for an hour as I was nervous about an early wake up! She woke herself at 6:50am. This means she actually had a 12 hr sleep, although obviously there were those wakes.

This morning she was tired mid A time. I gave her teething meds and this seemed to help so her teeth may not be helping in this process. Her A time was 4 hrs 10 mins today, after falling asleep within seconds in the cot on her own. She then actually did a 1 hr 30 min sleep.

This means our day had looked like this:

W 6:50
A. 4hrs 10 mins
S. 11:00 - 12:30 (1 hr 30 mins)
A. 3 hrs 35 mins
S. 4:05 - 4: 15

Now hoping for 7 pm bedtime again!! Do you think this EAsy is ok at the moment. I'm just wondering if it needs adapting with the night wakes or if this is just a settling in to a new EASy period?

[Hayleys]

Oh just forgot, if this does look ok, should I still keep trying to increase the A time? If yes, gradually or just she how she is on the day?

[Hayleys]

Hi

Sorry for all of these posts, don't want to give you an information overload but things are changing so much at the moment.  Think we are making progress though.

So she did go to bed last night at 7pm, she actually fell asleep on the bottle again.  Her night was improved too!!  During the early evening I did hear a few little moans and cries in her sleep, then at 11:15 pm she woke.  She then woke at 5 am.  I was settled her back to sleep in her cot (not the pushchair) she then actually woke on her own at 6:25 am.

I was worried this morning at her waking at this time as she had only had an 11 and a half hour sleep, not a 12 hour one.  However it was a better sleep as there were less wakes.  Anyway at points during the morning she seemed tired and then after about 3hrs 30 mins of A time she seemed to really wake up and was very engaged with her toys and me.  I did keep picking her up at various points as I was worried that I may be missing her cues. When she is tired she will often nestle into me.  She didn't though and instead figeted to get down

After 4hrs 45 mins she started to show some signs of tiredness, looking back not much though.  I put her in her cot, she cried at first and then started playing with the sheet and standing up.  I preserved and she fell asleep at after 5 hr 5 mins.  She fell asleep any crying really it certainly wasn't really stressful for both of us.  I'm thinking that I may have put her down too soon and that's why she didn't fall asleep straight away.  What do you think?  Or do you think it took time due to the sudden jump in A time.  I think I was so shocked at her A time and was panicking a bit that she would get overtired.   She woke after 1 hr 30 mins.

So, now I really don't know how is best to proceed with the rest of the day.  If she continues to stay awake for 5 hrs in the morning, should I think about dropping the catnap now and aiming for an EBT.  Or even do it today?  The thing is I've never done an EBT before so what time should that be?  She woke at 6:25 am, so in this instance should I aim for 6:30 pm?  I really don't want her to be waking any earlier than 6:30 am, preferably 7 really.  Here is what has happened so far today and if you get this message in time then could you give me some advice on if EBT is the way to go now and if so then what bedtime should I be aiming for? Unless I hear otherwise, I'm still going to give her the 10 min catnap as she woke at 1 pm so it is still quite early.

W 6:25
A 5 hrs 5 mins
S 11:30 - 13:00
A  ?

[Ima shel Alon]

I do think that the problem with the first nap is that so far you put her too early to bed. I know that she seems tired enough to you and sometimes even falling asleep on you, but you will just have to help her stay awake. I would increase the A time gradually, so go to 4.5h for 4 days, then increase it to 4:45h and see if she can handle it.
If WU from second nap is around 13 then I would still do an 10min CN for a while, just to let her settle into her new A time and give her chance to nap longer than 1.5h. If she can handle more than 4:45h A time (gradually, of course) then that's even better.
If WU is later than 13 I would try an EBT. I think 18 is a good time for that, and an EBT doesn't mean that baby WU earlier in the morning. We are aiming for her to tack on and sleep more than 12h a night. It doesn't work for all babies, but you would just need to give it a try.
BTW, I wouldn't wake her up from her AM nap for lunch or anything else really, unless you have to. If she is hungry then she'll wake up herself and anyway, when going through the 2-1 transition lunch is always at funny times, either very early or pretty late.

If you can't reply in time today, could you just advise anyway as I can see that with the 4 hr A time this pattern seems to be immerging. Tricky to know how to increase the AM A time now. I could have maybe tried putting her down at 4hrs 10 this morning!

I really wouldn't give her such a short A time. As you can see it's also messing with your day.

[Hayleys]

Hi!!

Thank you very much!! I feel a lot clearer now as to how to move forward!!!

She woke a good few time in the night and during the early morning she was struggling to get herself back to sleep, so I pushed her in the pushchair do an hour, just to get as much sleep in her as possible!! She actually then had an 11hr 45 min night!!  I then managed to keep her awake until 4 hrs 30 mins for her morning A time. She did give me tired signs around the 4 hr mark but I managed to keep her playing. I had tried that before but she had cried hysterically,  so was relived that she was receptive. I think now she is getting more night sleep it is helping her, as it was only about 10 hrs at one point!!

So she went down to sleep in her own in her cot! She only slept for 1 he 20 mins though. I'll try to keep her at this A time for 3 more days as you advised!!

Thanks again!!!

[Ima shel Alon]

Great, let me know how you are doing.

[Hayleys]

Hi!

So the night after I last posted she had an 11 hr 10 min night with waking early evening, during the night and early in the morning. She woke herself at 6:25 am. I then managed to keep her awake until 4 hrs 30 mins mark easily. As soon as I told her it was sleepy time she was very receptive to going down for a nap and she was asleep within minutes. She then slept for an hour and 40 mins, which is a big improvement on her nap time from the day before and the most sleep during that nap she has had in a while. Her EASY looked like this:

W: 6:25 am
A : 4hrs 30 mins
S: 10:55 - 12:35 (1 hr 40 mins)
A:  3 hrs 35 mins
S: 4:10. - 4:20
A  2 hrs 40 mins
S  7 pm ( didn't fall asleep until 7:30 pm)

As you can see as she woke early yesterday I still offered her the catnap which she was receptive to!! However, bedtime was a bit tricky. She was tired but struggled to get herself off to sleep!! The same thing happened the previous time at bedtime although it only took 15 mins. I just wanted to mention it as it may start to become an issue and also if she wakes early and then falls asleep late, it really affects how much night sleep she gets. The first few days of giving her a 10 min catapult she would fall asleep on her night bottle. Now she is much more awake!! Is it worth moving the catnap eàrlier or do you not think it is an issue?

During the night after this day, she did not wake at all in the early part of the evening but did wake at 2 pm. I always give her a bottle during the night so I did this bit she did not drift back to sleep quite as easily as usual. Eyes open when she was back in the cot but managed to get herself back to sleep after 20 mins. She then woke at 5:30, again took about 20 mins to resettle and I'm hoping for a 7 am wake up!!

[Hayleys]

Hi

So this morning she did easily stay awake for 4 hrs 30 mins. She did not go down very easily though. She did cry quite a bit and fell asleep after 4 hrs 40 mins.  She then did a 1 hr 25 min sleep and did a few single cry outs during this time but put herself back to sleep.

I was just wondering if you think I should start to increase her A time from tomorrow or still wait another day? Today, it was the third day of 4 hrs 30 mins A time.

What do you think? Do you think she was UT?

[Hayleys]

Hi

So, the Pm ten min catnap was a little tricky too.  Usually falls asleep within 10 mins in the car but today it took her 25 mins before she was asleep!!

Our Easy was:

W: 6:45
A: 4 hrs 30 mins (but fell asleep at 4 hrs 40 mins)
S: 11:25 - 12:50
A: 3hrs 35 mins
S 4:25 - 4:35

I'm not sure if she will go down well tonight but we'll see what happens!

[Hayleys]

Hi

So bedtime was trickier again than it has been. She took 20 mins longer to drink her bottle so I put her in her cot at 7;20. She then didn't fall asleep until 7:45 pm!!

The only things which I can think of which also may have impacted upon the day is that my mum came ivermectin this morning and before her AM nap she was aware that she was around/downstairs. Although before when her A times have been accurate she has still gone down fine in similar circumstances!! And this afternoon she spent quite a lot of time in the car or pushchair so not as much activity as usual. Like I said though bed time yesterday was also a bit tricky too!!

[Hayleys]

Hi

So, during the night she slept quite well. She did not have any early evening wake up but did wake up and had a bottle at 12:30 am. She then slept until 5:50 am. She seemed quite awake when I went into her. I put her in the pushchair and half an hour later she did fall asleep until 6:50 am so we started the day at this time.

This morning she did not show tired signs around the 4 hr mark and was rubbing her eyes a little after 4 hrs 30 mins. I put her in the cot at 4hrs 35 and she was asleep after 4 hrs 40 mins again. She did fall asleep more easily then yesterday.

So after she had been asleep for 1 hrs 10 mins, I noise woke her up! She was sat in her cot and looked dazed. I pick her up and she buried her head into me wanting to go back to sleep. I think this took about 10 mins or so. I then sat on the chair and let her sleep in me. She woke after a total of 2hrs 20 mins, but I don't know if she would have done this if she had not been woken by the noise. This also meant that she woke at 1:50 pm so we are currently going to try our first ever EBT at 6 pm. This has been our Easy for the day:

W: 5:50 (fell back to sleep in the pushchair until 6:50am)
A: 4 hrs 40 mins ( took 5 mins to fall asleep)
S: 11:30 - 1:50
A: 4hrs 10 mins
S: 6 pm (fingers crossed)

As nervous as I feel, I am also pleased that we are having the EBT as she has started to wake earlier and also fall asleep later. Isn't that a sign that something needs to change.

However, if she wakes early tomorrow and I can't get her back to sleep, how should I proceed? What A time should I aim for now: 4hrs 45 mins ( to be asleep by), for 2 days she has fallen asleep at the 4 hr 40 mark. The first time was when she was put in her cot after 4 hrs 25 mins and then today when she was put in her cot at 4 hrs 35 mins. It's been 4 days I have tried to hold her at 4 hrs 30 but in the last 2 days it seems to have got later?

Also if tomorrow after her morning sleep, she wakes at 1 ish should I offer her the catnap again and go for a 7 pm bedtime? And should I still do this if she wakes as early as 6 am. As you can tell I'm very apprehensive about the EBT, she has never had a 12 hr night without me having to AP her to sleep during the early morning. 

[Hayleys]

Hi!

So last night she fell asleep on the bottle and I put her in her cot at 6:15 pm. I heard her do a few little cry outs during the early evening and then did wake and had a bottle at 11:30 pm. She went back to sleep straight away and she then slept soundly until 5:50 am!

The problem was, I couldn't get her back to sleep after this. I put her in the pushchair for half an hour and then she was trying to get out so we just started the day. As she didn't sleep our wake up time is 5:50.

This really throws our EASY out for the day!! I'm not sure how to proceed? A 4hr 45 min A time, 10
Min catnap and the 7 pm bedtime? What do you think? Does she just need time to get used to Early bedtimes and then she'll sleep longer?

[Ima shel Alon]

I think it's really time to give just one nap a try. Forget about the CN. Like I told you before she is going to get OT, but you just need to bit the bullet and do it.
I would continue with EBT for a few more days, not many kids respond to it after one night. So IIWY I would rather go for an EBT than the CN.
You can also see that when you put her early to be then she did in the end do a 12h night, which is great. It probably proves that that's what she needs, but that she can't do that if she goes to bed too late (which would even mean 19 ).
Would you be able to manage a few days of 6AM WU? If she will be settled into a new routine of one nap a day and an EBT but won't WU later than 6 and it would be a problem for you then we can try and push BT later, but I really would give it a proper try first.
I she handled 4:30h A time for the last few days then you can try and up it to 4:40 or 4:45h. I wouldn't look at the time she actually fell asleep, but more when you put her down, otherwise it's going to confuse us a lot.