Changes in sleep times at night - 3.5 months baby

[shira1206]

Hi Ladies,
I wanted to update where we are right now.
in general i think naps and NW's are OK, even though there are some NW's it's less than before and she falls asleep by her own usually.
during the day CN is a bit strange - she started sleeping about 20 min. now that is probably OK, however since she can't stay awake more than 1h40m she usually takes her CN around 16:00-16:15 and since it's 20 minutes, maybe 30 she wakes before 17:00. this means she is awake until evening feed at 19:00 for more than 2 h and until she goes to bed it can be 2.5h and i see she is tired.
do you have any suggestions about this?

also, i wanted to ask, could it be she isn't totally hungry every 4 hours? that's how i feel, like she isn't craving for food when we get to it.

we started DF 3 days ago, around 22:45-23:00, and here's what happened:
Day1 - she took only 20 ml (her usual bottle is 150ml) but didn't move once during the night until 3:30 AM
Day2 - she took 100 ml this time however she stirred twice and woke around 3:00 AM - when i took her up she was all wet from pee poor thing - and she what chitchating when she woke up and smiling.
Day3 - Dad put a new diaper on before the DF, which kinda woke her up. During DF she was half asleep and took 100 ml. then she needed some help getting back to sleep - which she didn't the first 2 nights, because she didn't wake at all. she moved a bit around 2:00 AM, then at 3:00 she woke but when i came back to ger her after making her bottle she was sleeping. so i went back to bed, and she woke again at 3:30 AM. i thought i would try the paci, and she fell asleep in 2 seconds. she finally woke at 5:00 AM to eat - and she was hungry by then.
she then went back to sleep and i had to wake her at 7:00. ofc she wasn't hungry and barley ate 40 ml.

to be very honest i feel like i am giving her an additional feed during the day she didn't ask for until we started the DF - because she used to sleep through that time before and she still wakes for a feed.
we will continue for some more time but i would like to know what your thoughts are on this please.

thank you again,
Shira

[shira1206]

hello again,
it's been 2 weeks since we started DF.
our little one stopped taking a night feed after about a week or so.
the thing is i feel we are harming here sleep in a way - she stopped waking around 3AM once DF kicked in and started waking at 4AM instead, and also around 5AM or sometimes 5:50AM
when she wakes i pat her and give her a paci if she doesn't calm and go back to sleep herself, and she does fall back asleep so i assume she isn't hungry
when she finally wakes to start the day - can be between 6AM to 7AM, she usually doesn't eat much, which is very strange. her usual amount in bottle is 150 and sometimes she eats 90 - after a night without food. not sure why.
the last week i feel she is not so calm, she does not enjoy her toy and cries more and wants me to hold her a lot. she also yawns a lot and rubs her eyes and it's hard to keep her awake more than 1.5h whereas we had 2 weeks where she got to 1.45 and 2 hours of A time.
i feel like she does not sleep well at night, with all those hours where she stirs again and again. i should mention that when my DH feeds her the DF, it's around 23PM and she immediately wakes when he picks her up now, like she got used to him coming to feed her - but falls back asleep during the DF. she does not eat much on DF - between 60 to 90 tops.
i just feel shes tired, maybe the fact she wakes at 23PM, and then stirs several times from around 4AM, it messed up her sleep?

also, 2 days ago i decided to wake her gently at 3:00AM (wake to sleep) since i saw the pattern of her waking at 4:AM each morning - the thing is that same night she start stirring in her bed at 2:30AM and didn't calm until 3AM. i still touched her a bit and gave her paci, but she woke up at 4AM for couple min and fell back to sleep on her own, then at 4:30AM and needed her paci to sleep again, then again paci at 5:45AM
last night i wanted to wake her at 3AM again, since i read it should be done several days and again, she woke at 2:50AM. i still touched her gently, put her paci in.
she then again woke at 4AM, then 5:50 - and finally woke at 6:15

i would like to also mention i see she has shortened her day naps to around 1.20 hours to 1.30 hours whereas until now she slept 2 hours each nap (besides CN of course).

i am kind of lost to be honest.
she is now 4 months and 2 weeks (though she was born 2 weeks before time if that matters, i am not sure).
i want to help her but i do not understand what's going on and not sure what she needs and i want to be able to keep our routine as best as possible but i feel it's getting all over the place.
any advice would be much appreciated.

thank you
SHira

[deb]

Maybe for now stop the DF and see what happens. Josie took it for a while and then....nothing. I agree that if she's falling back to sleep with paci she's not hungry, so maybe let her sleep alone a little while and see what happens.

[shira1206]

thanks Deb
if we stop DF it means we need to go back to a night feed, since without it she gets only 4 bottles a day. i don't mind really but we did want to try getting her to sleep through the night - ofc not like this when she's so restless.
wouldn't stopping DF only 2 weeks after we started confuse her too much? isn't it worth trying some more or better to drop it before it gets too far into it?

[deb]

If you drop the DF, do offer her more during the day. How much is she taking at night? Enough to make it worthwhile? She might be ready for bigger daytime feeds now that she's older, which would mean she stands a better chance of getting all the needed calories in during the daytime. But if she still takes a big DF, maybe back down the amount and try to replace the calories during the day until you can just give her the paci at night if/when she wakes.

[shira1206]

she currently takes 150ml mostly during the day, though it changes - she is not a morning eater and rarely eats the entire bottle, even after the entire night without a bottle, which really confuses me to be honest. sometimes even only half a bottle in the morning
sometimes during the day she will not finish her bottle either, maybe eat 120ml
her last day bottle, around 6:30-7PM is usually 180ml, like she is filling a little of what she missed earlier during the day.
for DF, she started very low (30ml) and went up to 90. once even 120 but then back to 90, and last 2 DF's only 60 - how can she not be hungry during the night like this? clearly she isn't getting what she "should" - though i did read in Tracy's book that 4 months babies can eat less due to development changes.

i guess 60 ml is not enough if a regular bottle is 150. we do offer more, she just won't eat more - she falls asleep and DH can't get her to eat more.
i can try to offer more during day feeds but she doesn't finish her 150 usually like i mentioned above - so i am not sure what to do. what do you think?

do you think DF is influencing her NW's? the last 2 days where she only took 60ml she woke at 2:30AM - but went back to sleep with her paci. does that connect in anyway? yet again, she didn't want more than 60ml or to eat during the night. 

thanks

[shira1206]

I had to write again because i feel so lost 
I am just so terribly tired - little one is waking at 2AM, 4AM, 6AM...
All these NW's have now been more than a month and I feel it's getting harder and harder because i know shes going to wake and i sleep even less

if baby is tossing and turning, even though eyes are shut, does this count as sleep time? i feel so bad for her, since this happens so much now and it's like she doesn't sleep well at all.

there probably isn't anything to do at this point, i just wanted to share.

 

[newkidontheblock]

Could you post your day, hun?

[shira1206]

lately this is how our day looks like:
5:45-6AM - LO starts stirring, I usually give paci and she keeps stirring back finally wakes at 7AM
E - 7:15-7:30AM
A - (yesterday she made it 2h but couple days before it was hard to even make it beyond 1.5h)
S - 9-10:30 (she used to do 2h but started shortening it about a week ago)
E - 10:30-11
A -
S - 12:45-13:00 (usually 2 hours)
E - 15:00
A -
S - 16:30 (20 to 30 minutes)
A -
E - 18:15 - 18:45 (depends how tired she is if i want her to go in a bit earlier)
S - 18:45-19:00 (sometimes 19 +)
DF - 22:30-22:45PM
NW - 2AM
NW - 4AM
starting over 6AM with stirring

i have to say last couple of days we had some out of routine activity, so 2 days ago she went to bed late and yesterday she slept in her trolley around 12:30 for 30 min, then we left for home so she woke and when we got home i put her in bed around 13:30PM. she closed her eyes but tosses and turned in bed until 14:30!

i am really trying to keep our EASY going as best as i can..
also i tried some wake to sleep but doesn't seem to work.

thanks

[newkidontheblock]

This actually seems fine to me at least. She is doing long naps even though she can't do long As. I don't think you should worry too much about the unsettledness as long as she properly wakes at 7am. 1-2 NWs are very normal at this age

[shira1206]

OK thanks.
i was actually starting to think i was the problem because maybe i go to hear too fast when she stirs.
does that even make sense?
when she moves, and tosses her head, and pushes her backside up, her eyes are still shut. i am just concerned she is not comfortable or that she will totally wake up.
should i not go to her? because i feel she does not get a good sleep like this, when she isn't calm.

[newkidontheblock]

I know it might be hard but try not to go to her unless she calls for you. Even if she is restless or even awake, let her try to sort herself out. If she needs you, she will let you know and you can be there for her at that point. Sometimes we disturb them more with our presence

[shira1206]

thanks!
she will be moving to her own room soon so that may help with that. it's hard not to respond when shes sleeping in the same room and you hear everything.
i appreciate your help

[newkidontheblock]

t's hard not to respond when shes sleeping in the same room and you hear everything.

I can imagine. I'm sure both of you will sleep better once she's in her own room/

{{hugs}} hope things improve