still allergic to breast milk?

[bjutka1]

Will suggest that, see what they say. But I think they will just say neocate, neocate, neocate...

Had a brilliant day yesterday with very little crying and a settled girl. Only to be followed by an awful night, lots of nwks (every hour towards the end) and diarrhoea in the morning... But I suppose it's early days for sals to clear from system? When did your LOs start to sleep and nap better?

My diet yesterday:
B rice cereal with rice milk, rice bread, sunflower spread and maple syrup
snack peeled pear
L Homemade Chips done in sunflower oil with chicken and swede
D rice with a few peas, chicken and iceberg lettuce
snack before bed: rice bread, sunflower spread and maple syrup

How does this look like?

It says online to cut all vitamin supplements. But we do need the calcium supplement, right? And I would also be inclined to take the pregnacare multivitamin because otherwise I would be worried about vitamins. Also worried about essential fatty acids. There is no Omega 3 in my diet, only Omega 6. Would an Omega 3 supplement be too high in amines? I can't take salmon as she reacts very badly.

What's your thought on homeopatic remedies given by kineziologist? I was given one but too scared to use it in case it's high in chemicals or something.

[deb]

I can't speak to the amines in different Omega 3 sources, but omega 3's in general tend to be anti-inflammatory, and it's better to have more omega 3's than 6's - the ration is important, not just the actual amount. Most people get too much omega 6 and not enough omega 3.

There are other sources of omega 3's, including hemp and flaxseed and other oily fish - but again, I don't know about the amines in those either.

[EloysH]

Definantly no fish oils supplements are allowed, too high in amines.  What other omega 3 supps are there - flawseed oil is  not allowed - yet it is moderate to high in salicylates. Yes your diet won't be very good then, without the salmon.   Is gee a good source of omega 3 - I know it has all the lovely essential fatty acids.  What i would do is as soon as she reaches baseline, introduce something with moderate chemical into your diet and treat it as a food challenge for the omega 3's like flaxseed oil or else gee.  The hemp is very high sals unfortunately.  You wuill know very quickly  if it is a problem or not.

How old is she again?  For me it took a good 4-6 weeks to get to mostly symptom free (no gas, no sore tummy, no squirming, no premature wakings), but i was eating too many moderates, so maybe you will see results quicker    Once we did get to baseline, and I started food challenges, he would react for about 24-48 hours and then go right back to the baseline in about 24-72 hours.  So once you hit stability (baseline) you are on a pretty good wicket.

[deb]

I knew Eloise would know!  Thanks so much, E - you're a wealth of knowledge!  

I had a question for you about something I thought of while this thread was on my mind: On another parenting forum a long time ago another parent posted about sals - which was where I first heard of it - and she said that if her DS accidentally got something high in sals, he could take ibuprofen and it helped with the effects temporarily. Have you heard of anything like that?

[EloysH]

Well same to you Deb 

I had another thought, what about egg yolks?  I know you can't have them, but again once she is stable you could try for an egg yolk challenge  as that would give you not only omega 3 but also A, D and all the other important stuff.

Deb, I think it may have been an epsom salts bath.  Alot of the online people I know do this if they are reacting to sals/amines/glutamates/perservatives.  It lessens the severity of the reaction, not sure how it works though! 

I had another thought, what about egg yolks?  I know you can't have them, but again once she is stable you could try for an egg yolk challenge  as that would give you not only omega 3 but also A, D and all the other important stuff.   

So you are going ahead with the diet without windy veg then?  I would worry about where you will get your vitamin C from???
 

[bjutka1]

Hi girls

Thanks for all that. Are you suggesting I give her a bit of nurofen then?

Talked to the dietian and she has come round to Failsafe idea though said would check with the doc immunologist as well. She also said I could start to wean her on baby rice (she is 20 weeks old)

Also been to see the kineziologist who did muscle testing on her and she came out bad on everything in onion family, asparagus, brussel sprouts, but fine with cabbage. Is that believable? Not sure, what do you think? What other sources of Vitamin C are there? Is pear not it as fruits in general? She also came out bad with all vitamin supplements including Calcium but she said she desensitized her to Calcium and Omega 3 supplement. Great ideas about Omega 3 - problem is - I don't know if I ever gonna reach baseline...

So if I follow RPAH and take into consideration waht she said - this is how my diet looks like

Protein: chicken, turkey, lamb (she also said beef and veal came out ok but I am not sure)
chickpeas, beans (though aren't they too windy?) no lentils she said
Grains: rice, millet, buckwheat
Fruit pears (she also said a few others but since they are high in sals - I'm gonna avoid)
Veg: potato, lettuce, bamboo shoots, celery, swede
Moderate: carrots, parsnips, cucumber, beetroot, peas, sweet potatoes, zucchini (100gr serve 2 times a day)

What do you think? Kineziologist also said she would be very worried about me at this stage as I haven't had proper nutrition for 2 months, Julia is still quite bad with allergy and she was pretty much saying to consider neocate now. She had 4.5 months breastmilk. She is very bad and windy again today. Just don't know how I would ever get her to take it and would probaly be mourning breastfeeding for months...

[EloysH]

Oh forgot to add definantly take the calcium supplement - 1200 mg per day, make sure it is "balanced" that is contains the minerals required for calcium absorption.  I also took a pregnancy vitamin, mostof ok. I will check the ingredients to loko out for nasically it is anything that has artificial colours or flavours. For example if you were to take vitamin C it needs to be pure absrobic acid.  It tastes very sour!   I was taking it for a bit along with zinc when I was breastfeeding as I was very depleted in that area.

On the neurofen thing - no that has no benefit dietwise.  I think it has sals or amines in it, it definantly has preservatives and flavours so it not allowed.

I think you are in a very tough spot here.   If it were me, I would make a decision based on nutrition for my myself, whether the stress level of eating that way is tolerable and how important it is to exclusively brestfeed.   What about combination formula and BM? Altrhough that wold mean BW gives way to formula after a few months right?

I would get some more advice on your diet via a nutritionist/dietician....  ask what are you missing vitamin and mineral wise from your foods, see of any foods from the low or moderate fit that and then desensitise to those.   If it is "low' is should be safe,.  If windy, if you cook for less than 5 mins, the windy causing gas won't be released so in my mind should have minimal impact on you and her.  I am thinking green beans and brussel sprouts are pretty important.  Also the lamb for your iron. Sweet potato is high in vitamin A and D, that would be a moderate to consider.

[bjutka1]

Thanks. Great ideas. Do you believe in desensitising by kineziologist? She said she did that for her for calcium and omega 3 so I should be able to take these then? Is white fish allowed on the diet? How do you make sure your meat is well cooked if it's not allowed to brown or slow cook? Have you had beef on your diet or did you avoid it?

There was a section on the failsafe diet explained page on babies and children where it says that neocate is high in glutamates and aspartate.
http://failsafediet.wordpress.com/the-rpah-elimination-diet-failsafe/babies-and-small-children/
Is this is true, neocate would be no good, then, right? I tried her on it yesterday again but she arched her back and screamed from the top of her voice. Not sure I would ever get her to take it.

How did the list I posted yesterday of allowed foods look like to you?

[EloysH]

Ok so, the bit you are worried about in the link I think is this:

Formulae containing ‘hydrolysed’ or ‘partially hydrolysed’ proteins (often sold as ‘comfort’ proteins or ‘hypoallergenic’ products) contain free glutamates and aspartic acid

This doesn't apply to neocate because it is not a hydrolysed protein formula, it is amino acid based. They are talking about hypoallergenic formulas here.  Also,  I think they are saying "some" of these formulas have the free aspartic acid or free glutamates.  My paediatric allergist who used to work at the RPA allergy unit for years and years along side my dietician recommend neocate for food intolerant babies.  There is now way they would recommend formula with glutamates and additives. 

Remember that th website above is essentially a "blog"  of a person who has been on the RPAH diet for many years...with very useful information, but it is not endorsed by the RPAH.  The official published information is in the" RPAH elimination diet handbook" by the way there is nothing on formula there.  So we need to be careful when judging what she says.


As for kineasiology - whilst I am happy to have done it for Kai and am currently getting it done for myself... I do believe that the process helps, but i have no evidence to suggest it has "cured" or completely desensitised anything for me or Kai.  All I know is that my little boy gets less sensitive with time and improved alot after the treatments.  But i have never banked on them, I prefer to fall back on results from food challenge and then careful liberalistion - as the diet protocol suggests.   I am science by trade, this influences things alot for me. My personal belief is that the kineasiology strengthens the immune system, however, due to the inherent toxities in our environment, the inherited toxities in our babies, and in the foods we/they eat, sensitive little babies like mine still will struggle to process food chemicals, even if desensitised.   This is why I additionally have Kai on supplements to help with the clearing out of food chemicals issue.

Yesterdays foods looked ok.

Yes I ate beef too.  Early on I roasted them in the oven on medium heat, if it got too brown on the outside I just cut those bits off.  I would  also crumb some chicken schnitzel peices in egg replacer and rice crumbs, very thickly, then fry  in  apn so the crumbs got browned, not the meat.  I would also cook things like homemade sausages from chicken mince, leek, garlic, and veges in a bubbling bath of failsafe stock.  If cooked in 5 mins or so that's fine.   I only had to follow the amine guidelines for about 9 weeks as he passed the amine challenge 

White fish - it is up to you, fish and shellfish are on the list of allergins I think so if you are going completely allergin free, keep it out.   Ask the dietician???  I kept it in and it was never a problem, and so glad that I did. There are some nice oily white fish that are probably high in omega 3 too.

 

 

[bjutka1]

Thank you.

Had a great night last night. Instead of the every hour or two wakings, she woke at 11pm, 3am, 5:30am and 7:30am. I know it doesn' sound good but it's a lot better than before.

Then when I went in this morning, I found new rashes under her little eyes... Why is this? The skin reaction is pretty quick so it would mean that I had somethign yesterday to upset her, right?

This was my menu:

B: rice cereal, rice milk, rice bread, sunflower spread, lettuce
L buckwheat, roasted chicken leg, 100gr fried courgette
D homemade chips, lightlty fried chicken breast, and 100gr sweet potato
snack: a pear

The only thing I can think of it that the oil needs changed in the deep fat fryer.

[EloysH]

Is the oil free from synthetic antioxidents?  Oh are the zucchinis peeled?  If not they are high sals 

A rash under the eyes may not be food related, but a contact rash.  Usually food issues will show up on the cheeks.

Yay for the better night!

[bjutka1]

The oil just says: pure sunflower oil - nothing else. Bought in tesco. The zucchinis are peeled and so are cucumbers if I have some. Her rash seems to be just on one cheek and it's quite hot to touch too so maybe teething?

Last night was awful again with 1-2 hrly wakings and lots of wind.

My meny yesterday:
B: rice cereal, rice milk, rice bread with maple syrup
L rice, chickpeas, turkey, lettuce
D chips, 100gr sweet  potato, lamb, celery
snacks: pear, sliced cucumber on rice bread

Then a bad night followed with lots of wind and the rash that previously disappered came back under eyes and beside lips...