How can I get her on a routine, without risking OT?

[lesorl]

M didn't fall off til 7:20pm tonight, so another 5 am waking tomorrow I suspect.

I'm so sick of the irregularity     

[skatty]

Leslie are you sure you aren't going for the record of the most looong threads on toddler sleep 

[lesorl]

Believe me Katt, I'd like to get OFF the toddler sleep thread.

I just don't know where to go anymore!

[RACHPEM]

Hi Leslie, hang in there! I know it is so frustrating not being able to still not have a routine.  We are on day 3 of having longer A time, and although naps are longer wake up time is still not great.  I guess I will have to wait it out a little longer and see where that leads.  We are off on holiday soon, so no doubt we will have to start all over again when we get back.
hugs to you and Maddy.
Rachael x

[newmama12]

Yes, hang in there leslie!! I know the inconsistency is hard.

We've had an interesting few days. Talk about inconsistency!! So, mon and tues, she had 5 hours of A and napped almost 2 hours both days and went to bed 5 hours later and slept about 11.5 hours at night. Yesterday, she had 5 hours of A and only napped 1.20 hours and had about 11 hours at night. Today she had just over 6 hours of A (we decided to have lunch with dh) and she napped 1.45 hours. She was in bed at 6:50 (only 4 hours of A) b/c she asked to go to bath and bed. It's just about 7:15 and she is still rolling around. So, we'll see how long she takes. So weird. Don't get it at all!

I know someone was writing about going by the clock instead of A time, but what happens if dd sleeps in? If I go by clock time, she'll be napping with less morning A time, right? I'm starting to go crazy! LOL! I'm thinking of just stopping trying to calculate everything and go by what she wants/needs. If she asks for nap/bed, we go up. If not, and she's not crabby, we stay downstairs and play. AHHHHH!! So hard to figure out!!

[lesorl]

Well well well- guess who napped for 1 hour 33 mins today?

(Drum roll please)

My daughter! 

Of course I have no idea why- she slept last night from 6:11pm-5:23am (B2S til 5:55am??) with a few NWs.  Down for her nap at 11:20am. 

[NiknLily]

Just a quickie
newmama12, at your DD age thats really not so inconsistant.  I'd of been pretty damn pleased if Lily had pulled a week like that.  The 6hr A time would of got her slightly OT, not enough to really effect her nap as she did 1hr 45m nap, pretty good nap, but still left her getting accumulativly OT over the course of the day.  She wanted to go to bed early but is still struggling, I'd put that down to long morning A time.  A long A time doesn't only reflect on the sleep directly following it.

Leslie it sounds like (dare I say it! that M is getting back on track:-)  how you doing on the GW, did you read my last pp on page 4?

Nik x

[NiknLily]

Aileen
I honestly can't remember at what age Lily started to extend to 1.5hrs.  I know it tool months from when we first transitioned, to start with we only got 45min - 1hr naps, that was the biggest hurdle getting past those, once we did, although it was infuriating and I probably obsessed as much as you ladies, 1hr 15mins was a treat.  I was accutly aware that 1hr 15 is meant to be an OT nap and we got nws during first 3hrs of night for about 4/5months maybe longer. But rest assured her naps will extend.  Some LO's really do have to grow into their new routine.  This was always the case with Lily, every nap she dropped caused months of grief until she had grown into new A times!  As for consistency, until they do fit the new routine your just not going to get any real consistency IMO.  Thats a lot of the reasons I have stuck with clock times, based on her ideal day and night.

[lesorl]

So after the 1.5 hour nap Friday, we had 2 brief NWs, and up at 5:35am Saturday.  Put her down at the exact same time for nap (11:14am) and she slept 1 hour 25 mins.  Again last night 2 brief NWs, but awake at 5:47am (progress, right?).  Fell asleep at 11:17am for nap, but only slept 65 mins.  So my question:

  * The 2 days she napped longer, she woke at the exact same time and napped at the same A time (and clock time), +/- 5 mins.  The 3rd day, she napped shorter with a shorter A time, but same clock time.  So do I go by A time or clock time?  Or do I need to give the clock time a few more days to see where it all shakes out?  Or do I see how she fares tonight?

[lesorl]

Another rough night- asleep at 5:45pm, awake b/t 10pm and 12:30am, and awake at 4:52, dozed (I think) til 5:30am.  We were at my parents' yesterday afternoon, so probably some OS.  She also has a cold that began yesterday. 

Can anybody help? 

I'm losing it.

[newmama12]

You guys are never going to believe this.....J napped for 2 hours and 40 minutes yesterday!! DH and I were in shock! I have no idea what happened! I am just hoping she's not getting sick. The past 2 times she's napped 2.5 hours it was b/c she got a cold the next day. I'm keeping my fingers crossed and so far she seems ok.
I figured her long nap would mean she would have a good 5 hours of pm A time, but by 7:30 (only 4.5 hours of A) she was yawning and seemed tired. We were out and she went to bed at 8:30 (very late for her norm!) and she woke at 6am. I figured she would have slept till at least 7, but nope. So....back to early nap again today and we'll see how things go.

[NiknLily]

Leslie
I'd say the cold has buggered up your good work, M's sleep always did go haywire when she was poorly.  I remember the first 3 times you got her on 1 nap she promptly got sick and it took months again before you dared try again with it. 
I'd stick with super early bedtimes until she is well again, all bets are off again until she is feeling better. 
From what you've written above it looks like you should be going by A time in the am, if the wake up time would result in a short A time you seem to get short naps.  But, it could be that the good nap days where because she was coming down with a cold, not what you want to hear I'm sure :-(
How is the GW going? are you getting out of the room yet?  Take it from one who's been there, her sleep will improve no end when she is sleeping independantly again.  That said I'd stick where you are at present, you can't sleep train when their unwell.
Hope she feels better soon
Nik x

[lesorl]

AAARRRRGGGGHHHHH!

Great night, slept 5pm-6:20am, with 1 brief NW.  I put her down after 5 hours 45 mins A time (which is what produced the 1.5 hour naps last week), and she was up 43 mins later.  WTH?

I'm going crazy here, and I just cannot deal with such a short napper anymore.  I need a BREAK!

[NiknLily]

Leslie, she actually slept 14hrs total!    no wonder she couldn't sleep longer than 43mins for her nap after a 13hr 20min night.  14hrs is top end of required sleep for her age. 

I'd say you have to work on shifting her day on a bit to a later bedtime-later wake up, and by controlling her night sleep you should get reasonable length naps. 

Madalene is def a night sleeper, she pulls easy 12hr nights so your never going to get long naps, your probably looking at a 12hr night and 1.5hr nap tops.  This is absolutly fine, except for the fact that it leaves them very succeptable to OT, having just 1.5hr naps.

[lesorl]

Oh Nik- she is so prone to OT with the short naps.  I suppose I need to do the 10 mins every few days experiment to move her day forward.  It seems like such a cycle, as a long night produces a short nap and a shorter night produces less A time and a short nap.  Feels like I'm screwed regardless.

Do I imagine my day being 7pm-6:30am, with a nap at 12:30pm, then **try** to get there?