Am getting desperate! Please help me!

[LucySol]

when Daisy refuses to go to sleep she screams hysterically! she was so cross! she even pood in her nappy she was so upset.i tried to stay with her but me bein there makes her so much worse.i did WIWO.i would be quite happy to leave her to it till she falls asleep but she isnt having any of that! how a 10 minth old can have such a temper!-and its definately temper cos she whacks me one when i lie her back down!!!

i went for 7pm-she manages easily.Maybe this was the main prob do you think? not enough A before bed? she was only having 3/3,5 most days and now she has jumped to 4.5!

[sherry lynn]

Lucy - I have a spirited LO also. And he also gets very very cross when I do WI/WO but having said that I stuck to it and it works great now. It took almost 2 hours for it to work the first time. But, I only do it when I know the A time is reasonable and that he should be tired enough to go to sleep. So when  I'm trying to figure out a new routine I probably wouldn't do that until I KNOW he should be tired, if not OT.
This is my rule if he's OT:
I do wi/wo until  he stops fighting so much. ie, keeps getting up. If he stays down I will stay there and sing quietly or rub is hair or just shhhh really quietly to help him because he's OT. But most of the time it doesn't even get to that. I just have to walk in or out a time or two now.
I wouldn't bother laying her down. That would also just make Lyle more mad. I do tell him to lay down and sometimes he will on his own, screaming all the while. But I don't even worry about that.
Ok, I'm rambling. My point is. I wouldn't rule out wi/wo. However, because you are working on a routine change I wouldn't really use it until you feel comfortable that your lo isn't UT or OT.

[~Alexa~]

Sorry it took me so long to answer, but I just had a battle with Patrick!!! GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH

OK, so now that I've shouted and screamed......One deep breath....Ready..

So, if you think she is fighting bedtime b/c she is not tired enough, then take her out, have 10 more min A time and then re-do your wind down routine and try again! It can be soooo tough to have a fight with our babies, that it is better to avoid them if we can! I get SO upset when I fight Patrick, I always end up in tears and shouting at my DH on the phone (I just did that ooops)! So, definitely try not to get into a battle with Daisy..Try what Sherry suggested.  Do wiwo, but if it is not working, then take her out and have 10 more min A, and try again later when you are calm and Daisy is calm!

How was bedtime today?
Yes... I DO think Daisy was not having enough A before bedtime.  (I think I mentioned it in one of my posts on this thread earlier). 
Fingers crossed you have a decent wake up tomorrow!! Please Daisy, your mommy needs to sleep until 6 am!! Please please, listen to what we are saying!! haha

[LucySol]

well she managed fine till 7pm and hadnt shown me any tired signs whatsoever-but as soon as i started to feed her she fell fast asleep.She had a good feed-albeit while she was feeding-and i tried to rouse her a little when i put her in her cot she she was flat out! She has woken really crying but it is very hot here today and i think she was too warm.Also her 2 bottom teeth have cut thru today so that could be bothering her a little.She has been really happy today,not seen her like this for a while.

You know you suggested the first nap to be 9.00-9.20,well because D kicked off so much today and didnt sleep till 9.30 that pushed her day a bit giving me a later bedtime than 6pm.so if like you said,she woke early today but it was nearly 11hrs so if i do 7pm bedtime it should be better.is that ok to push her first thing and do the catnap a bit later even if she wakes at 5am like today? she actually had a 4hr 20 A first thing

i hear you with the frustration with the battles! god i get so cross! i have to walk out of the room and calm down cos it winds me up so much!!! And my dh always gets it in the neck!! whats up with Patrick? just an off day?

[sherry lynn]

yeah, we do the same thing at bedtime.

If after I redo bedtime and he still plays up that's when I do wi/wo because at that time I KNOW he should be ready for bed. So I feel more confident in it.

[~Alexa~]

Yeap, an off day!! The camera of the video monitor fell down on his face when he was napping, and that made him really mad! I can't believe that at 8.5 mo, Patrick can be so temperamental!! He gets mad so easily! Then he was choking with his meat so I freaked out and put my finger in his mouth and he got mad again, he was screaming at me (literally), if I went away he calmed down, but as soon as I came back he screamed again! He is much better now! (me too) Too many things going on today! We are trying to move to 3 bottles too b/c he is refusing to drink any milk! haha Tooo many things!

I think you did the right thing by pushing the am catnap to 9.30 am.  If she is not tired, then there's no point in offering a nap! So, just try to follow her cues!  If she wakes up at 5 am tomorrow (I hope she doesn't), I would still offer the nap at 9 am, but if she doesn't take it, don't fight her, it's not worth it....Give her some A and try again at 9.30 am (like today) Then 3 hr A time and pm nap (like today).  

Hugs hun!! And good luck tonight!

[LucySol]

mmm,a 5.20am wake up today from 7pm bedtime.GGGRRRR--im the one shouting now!!! She is so whacked this morning she was asleep at 8.45 i couldnt get her to 9am in fact she was ready a lot before i put her down but i was worried that if i put her down too early it would make the day too short. This is so hard!! how did i get that nearly 12hr sleep and 6am wake up!! its so frustrating!

[shresmummy]

Hi Lucy! I hope you're doing OK...It must be the week of "GRRRRRRR!!!" I just had a go at DH as well!!!

My poor DD is very sick at the moment, got a nasty viral infection and has been off all her milk and food. I've had to resort to feeding her milk with a spoon because she cannot breath if she tries to drink from a bottle or BF. I'm so worried she's going to get dehydrated and our entire A time is spent trying to get fluids into her!

But despite how ill she's been she still manages to have a very fiery temper! She hit the doctor yesterday, scolded me when I tried to aspirate her nose and pushed my hands away and whacked me when I tried to give her paracetamol!! Unbelievable..and she screamed and screamed and screamed!

THen I got really mad at her and the cycle went on. It's so HARD not to get angry and upset when they're being so obstinate!! But then when she finally falls asleep I feel like the worst mother on earth!

Anyway, DH just got it in the neck big time - he was taking a nap while all this was happening and afterwards when he saw how upset and tired I was, he tried to be helpful and asked "why didn't you take a nap earlier!!"" oooh boy did he get it!!

Our sleep training, our NF weaning, everything is out the window now!! How disappointing. I've' had to do whatever I can do get her back to sleep when she wakes up crying in the night. I wonder if we'll ever get back on track.

Anyway, good luck for tonight Lucy! I"m keeping my fingers crossed for you.

[charmie]

{{{{HUGS}}}}} hun.  You are getting brilliant advice from Alexa and from Sherry too.  In fact this could be Sherry's story as she also had periods when she would try everything and anything but still get no consistency nor pattern whatsoever.  It's a bummer you are getting these horrible EW's.

Does she have any toys in the crib?  Maybe she could play with them when she wakes up early and give you some more zzzzzz's.  And she might also go back to sleep.  Or am I pushing it ?


xxx
charm

[LucySol]

oh no Charm dont tell me that!! i need to fix it!! im not much good at not having solutions to problems-i like things fixed!!!

Tried the toys in the cot.i went in to put some in yesterday morning-She thought this was gr8 till i walked out the room!!! maybe i could put some in so they are there when she wakes so i dont have to go in!!

[~Alexa~]

Hugs Priya!! Sorry your DD Is sick!! Don't worry about sleep training nor night feeds nor anythin! When babies are sick, they just need mommies! Just cuddle her and do whatever you can to make her feel better!

Lucy,
I'm sorry you had an EW again.  I think these whole EWs are something habitual now.  They are always around the same time, you know? 5 am, 5.10 am, 5.20 am...Anyway, have you tried w2s for these EWs? I would give w2s a good try and see if that helps.  Go to her at 4.30 am, touch her cheek or her lovey, or anything, just to make her stir.  Do this for 3 days and see what happens.  I know some mums wake their los at 4 am...That's what Tracy suggests in her book, anyway, I never wake Patrick up when doing w2s, but I guess you will have to experiment and see what happens.

Also, IF after trying w2s Daisy keeps waking every morning at around 5 am, then, put her down for the night at 6 pm. It is better to have a well rested baby in the morning, than an OT one.  So, if she keeps waking up at 5 am no matter what we do, then go ahead and put her down at 6 pm! At least you can enjoy a long afternoon and have time for Benjamin and for yourself!

I know this is very hard. There's no way you are going to be happy with a 5 am wake up and ready to start the day, so I think Charm's idea about giving her toys to play in the early morning is great.  If she keeps waking up that early, then we need to teach her to spend time by herself in the cot so you can sleep at least 1 more hr!

THis is what I would try tomorrow....Follow Daisy's tired signs and let her sleep as long as she wants during her naps.  We are totally lost as to how long she can stay awake, so I would have one day of "observation" and follow your DD's cues for putting her down to sleep.  So, if she wakes up at 5 am, and wants to go to bed at 8am or at 11 am for the nap, let her do it, and let her sleep as long as she wants.  When she wakes up, again, follow her tired signs and see at what time she wants to go down for another nap, and so on...By doing this, you will let Daisy catch up on the sleep that she needs, and you will have important information on about how long she can stay awake. 

How did her naps go today? How is her mood?

[charmie]

Yes of course you leave the toys there.  We have a fabric book and several soft toys.  We started off with 1 book, 1 soft toy and her bunny lovey. But now we have about 4 soft toys.  Don't put something that might disturb her sleep if she bumps in it at night.  And maybe teach her to say good night and good morning to the cot toys so that she becomes aware of them being there IYKWIM.  K plays with them even if it's dark.

I agree with Alexa on following her lead tomorrow.


xxx
charm

[LucySol]

hiya both!
Daisy was very grumpy first thing but after her first sleep she has been fine.We had a bit of a battle with the pm nap but apart from that she has been really happy.i did let her sleep longer than 20 mins first thing cos she was so grumpy but i only got 30 mins.so today;
5.20 wake up.
8.45-9.15
1.00-1.55 (this took some doing-she was refusing!!)
Asleep for 6.10 didnt give her too long an A before bed as the last 2 nights cos she was getting a bit grumpy and was really eady for bed.havnt had any wakings so far tonight so im guessing she wasnt as OT tonight as the last few nights.
Will let her catch up tomorrow--even if she wants 3 naps or do i go for the early bedtime rather than a late catnap?
i think you are right about letting her go to bed early.At the moment she is waking early no matter what i do so at least she would get more sleep! As long as she doesnt start waking even earlier!

Thankyou both so much

[~Alexa~]

With Daisy I would go for an early bedtime instead of a catnap b/c when you have given her a pm catnap she wakes earlier!! So I think you did the right thing!

Fingers crossed for tonight!
So follow her cues tomorrow, and let us know how it goes!
Hugs

[LucySol]

ok so we got a 5am wake up this morning.so from 6.10 last night that was almost 11 hrs-just wish she would do 11 hrs from 7pm!
so i did what you said and followed her today,so,
5.00 wake up
9.00-10.05
1.35-2.15(i knew this nap would be crappy cos i didnt swaddle her-its so hot here today and the poor girl is on fire she is so hot and uncomfortable!

what do you think?? does that tell us anything?