Wriggling 7 month old wont sleep!!

[~inbalance~]

I agree, a hand on her should be an appropriate tool.  I always found that it worked well, but if DS was just so determined to the point I had to restrain him, then it was time to let go.  It's true that it's only temporary, the novelty will wear off and she should become easier to settle.  Once DS figured it all out, he was actually much happier because  he could roll into a comfortable position to fall asleep (or move from an uncomfortable one).

[mokey_cat]

Hi ladies

Well night was not actually too bad.  In fact I let her roll and wriggle and although she was awake a lot, she ended up sleeping on her side    And it was the 1st time we didnt get an EW in AGES!!!  I usually go through and tuck her in but because I have the video monitor, I can see that she is not stuck so I did not disturb her like  usually do when I check on her.

She also settled well tonight so I am hoping this phase is passing, but then again she was really tired tonight.  I am guessing that each time she learns a new skill this will happen as it has happened when learning to sit and roll now  .

Just another quick question - does shhpat stop working at a certain age?  My LO used to love it and I could get her to sleep pretty easily with it.  Now it seems that I cant do anything to get her back to sleep.  I was also able to rock her until maybe 3 weeks ago (I also stopped swaddling) but now there is absolutely no chance I can get her back to sleep.  Do they eventually outgrow being able to be rocked/patted etc?  Its hard when she wakes from naps OT as before I had to cuddle her for a minute and she would be asleep again but now she arches her back and screams 

Nazmommy - I sometimes put my hand on DD's chest to settle her if she is trying to get to sleep if she is OT.  I had to hold her legs and chest through the 45 min jolts for ages for naps and she didnt end up relying on me to do it (thankfully!!) so I would agree with PPs that it shouldn't become a prop 

Laura
X

[~inbalance~]

Hi Laura!  Glad your night was a little better.    Ssh/pat is generally used for younger babies, so yes at a certain point it stops working and can actually become more stimulating than calming.  I think DS was around the same age as your LO when it stopped being effective.  And it's been ages since I've been able to rock him to sleep!  I have found that the older they get, less is more.  The less you try to put them to sleep, the easier they will learn how to go to sleep on their own.  With DS, the more I get involved the harder he will cry.  It has become very important for me to learn how to hang back and observe before interfering.

Yes, you do go through this everytime they hit a milestone!  Luckily it doesn't last forever, and usually both of you come out of the ordeal happier.  I remember when DS learned to sit/crawl/stand, I honestly wanted to pull my hair out.  But the frustration was short lived and is now a distant memory (even though it was only a month ago!), and now I am so happy that he's learned all these new skills.  They just keep getting more and more fun! 

[nazmommy]

Yes, I agree with pp!  The more I am involved with her, the worse it gets. 
As a side note... My ap is nursing.  However, if I nurse her to sleep, she doesn't sleep as long. I have to get her to sleep on her own.  I love, love nursing her to sleep but its for her benefit if go to sleep on her own!  She pops awake after about 45 minutes when I nurse to sleep.
Patting gently still works sometimes for her but its rapidly being a stimulant.  Shshing is long gone as a calmer. 
Thank you mokey cat for the encouragement, I am soo glad that the hand on her will not turn into a prop.
Thank you Martina also for the help!!
Ooh and for bedtime tonight, she went to sleep almost on her own!!  Yeah!
You girls are the best!

[annette.xx]

wow sounds like yesterday was a better day for most of us!!

My LO slept every nap with only a 5 min roll around (she did wake up in middle of first nap tho and I had to settle her back down!) and bedtime was so much better she settled down really quick compared to normal!!

She is now rolling from front to back and back to front so she can get herself comfy...everytime I put her down she rolls onto her tummy and I can now see thats where she wants to be...she kind of rubs her little head on the sheet....its so cute!!!

Its so hard to know when to intervene and when not......this morning she yet again had en EW at 5.45 i heard her moving and cooing and then crying...she always starts off with mantra cry so I leave her for a bit then she always calls for me with proper cry....the problem is that this morning I left her to it as normal waiting for her to call me but I fell asleep and woke half hour later to the sensor mat alarm going off!!!!!!!!....she had rolled to bottom of cot sideways cuddled into the bars asleep so the mat couldnt pick up her breathing!!!.....

I felt really bad as Im not sure how much crying she did?...surely if it had gotten really bad id have re woken?....just makes me wonder whether I need to leave her to get herself back to sleep....maybe I go in too soon....but her cry does escalate and I dont want to let her cry it out......how long is too long???.....so confused now.....

I think shes going to crawl early as well cos she can push forward already and lift her body up with legs so im in for more of the practising pretty soon!!!.....cant beleive how much she does at just 20 wks ....it was only 41/2 months ago that she was a tiny 6lb baby!!!.....it goes too quick!

Annette.xx

[TurboMum]

Hello there ladies,

I also have the same problem. To make things worse DS is in chronic OT cycle that I am trying to get him out of but not achieved any success so far...    I wonder if you have any advice. When you say lay a hand on your lo and let him/her sleep, how long do you do that for each time? and do you do that if your lo is crying too? I tried to put my lo to bed early to avoid OT but he just gets upset as soon as enter the room... if I leave it till when we usually start WD then it takes ages and sometimes he won't settle at all and then we end up OT... then I often cave in and pick him up and swing/rock a bit...and he'll be sleepy/asleep... but sometimes if I put him down (he's a tummy sleeper, so gets on his all fours is just soooo that easy!!!  ) he'll wake up and we'll start right from the beginning  ... arghhh.... Nights are the worse... we have usually around 8 times NWs.... now my DH is upset, grumpy, DS got eyebags... oh no... and I'm totally exhausted... anyone has any advice how to tackle this - I mean get him to sleep without getting OT but also without getting used to me rocking him?

Sorry i'm a bit in a rush... hope I made sense here....

Thanks, T xx

[annette.xx]

sorry to hear that you are having such a hard time at the mo......

I too once had the OT problem and the only way out of it was to do APOP (Accidental parenting on purpose).....we had to take her out for a long drive in the car cos she always slept well in car.....we had to do this for all her naps for a couple of days and for evenings until dreamfeed!!....once she had 2 good days of sleep I then carried on as normal with the routine......

sorry if thats not much help but it was the one thing that helped me to get back on track!

are you managing to get any naps at the moment at all? If so how many and how long do they last?

what time is his last nap before bed and how long is it for usually?....I have recently had to cut the catnap in late afternoon cos my LO just wouldnt settle to bed I thought it was OT but actually it was UT and she just wasnt ready for bed!!!!!

Its so hard ....I know how you feel....and nightwakings are the worst thing ever and to hae 8 wakings must be like torture....

Im sure you will get some fab help on here tho so dont panic you will soon be back on track!

Annette.xx

[~inbalance~]

Turbomum, I remember sleep around 6 months being a bit of a disaster for us too.    I agree, if you are stuck in a serious OT cycle, use a bit of APOP to get him caught up on some sleep.  Once he is better rested you can work on independent sleep, but one thing at a time is the best way to approach it.  Is your DS teething?  That could be a huge factor with your NWs.  I would try some pain meds and see if that helps.  I would recommend posting your routine on the NWs board (or even the naps or EASY boards too) too get a bunch of different opinions.  HTH

[clazzat]

TurboMum - I was going to suggest that the best way out of an OT cycle is some APOP to catch up on sleep, then addressing issues when he is well rested.  You say that WD takes ages and he gets OT - have you tried doing a really quick WD?  My dd is touchy and I used to try a long WD to get her ready for sleep and she would scream for up to 2 hours - when I stopped trying to do WD she put herself to sleep in less than 5 minutes.  Now I take her into her dark room, zip her into sleeping bag (I used to swaddle, but she started busting out of it!), put a song to play on the ipod and leave.  It very rarely takes more than 5 minutes for her to settle, and more often than not I don't hear another squeak after I leave them room.  It's worth a try.  Absolutely love your avatar, by the way - soooo cute!

[Ethan's Mom]

I sometimes nurse DS after he got OT wriggling around his cot. He usually sleep soundly afterward. Im just worry that it would lead him to nurse to sleep association. What is the best way to handle our OT LO due to this developmental milestone ?

[mokey_cat]

Turbomum - I always let DD sleep in my bed for naps for a few days when she was OT.  If she woke earlier, I could just cuddle up to her and she would usually get back to sleep. I always found that you couldn't teach independent sleep until they are out of OT cycle so I used APOP to get rid of OT - then you can get stuck in with the sleep training 

It so hard to deal with NW's!!  I forgot how hard it was until the last few weeks (DD has also had a stomach virus) so we have been up a lot changing nappies and clothes and then dealing with her gaining mobility  .  I really sympathise with you dealing with 8 NW's each night!!

Laura
X

[TurboMum]

Oh thanks soooo much ladies....... your suggestions have confirmed one of my thoughts. I was thinking of APOP as well but was really afraid of making myself a prop to him. I was always wondering if there is anyway that I can get him out of OT cycle and do sleep training as well as avoid AP and really haven't found a solution - apparently they really do go together, do they? I actually do quite a lot of AP but am really unwilling to admit it cos everytime I did it I felt soo guilty as I remember Tracy's words in her book - oh if you do sleep training but then give in and go back to AP you made your lo suffer for nothing! I sooo hate that I made my lo suffer for nothing!     But I suppose things will improve better when lo is feeling better, isn't it?

Usually my WD isn't that long - it's about 5-10min if everything goes in order. But don't know why in the past few days it just takes longer and longer to get DS down for bed. I just spent another 1.5hr to get him down!   I was trying to rock him to sleep, BUT he wriggles up and down, facing inwards, outwards, downwards, steps on me, pushes me away... grrrrrrr.... you name it! And he was like having fun while my arms get soooo sore!   But when I place him in his cot he immediately get really upset and start crying like he's been deserted... the little nasty monster! .. Yesterday was the same -he didn't go down until 8.30pm  oh my Gosh.....super super OT!!! I wonder what that means. Yesterday we had CN, but not today cos he got up late (due to MANY  and LONG NWs I let him sleep a bit in the morning cos he didn't go back to sleep until 6am (from 4am!)... but still took me that long to get him down....not sure if that means he needs more A? At the mo he's on probably 2hr20-30min - I know it's a bit short for his age.. but as I mentioned he's constantly OT he can't make his normal As... ...

Yes I have a thread in Naps and is receiving great help from Becky...but haven't heard from her for a few days... so I'm a bit desperate right now..... DS is not teething (I know he should!!! ) - tried pain meds a few days made no difference... he doesn't cry like he's in pain anyway.. just this terrible horrible nasty OT cycle messes things up! And the developmental milestones make it worse!  


Thanks again!!!   
T xx

[clazzat]

I would try putting him down and leaving him for a couple of minutes to see if he calms down.  From what you are saying, he doesn't really want to be held any more when he is getting ready for sleep, and the fighting you is getting him worked up and OT.  You should complete your WD and put him down and leave the room - go back if you need to, but don't try to rock him to sleep any more as he is too old for it.  You shouldn't leave him to cry for long, but I have found with my lo that she would go to sleep much more quickly if I left her to get it all out of her system - and I really think that letting her cry alone for 5-10 minutes was better for her than having her cry with me for 2 hours.

It also sounds like you should be looking at PUPD and WIWO - I haven't really done either with mine, but there is a lot of support and explanation of these techniques on the boards.

[mokey_cat]

I use WIWO now with DD if she wakes as she is better at getting back to sleep without me intervening too much.  In fact she screams when I try to cuddle her if!!  So if she wakes after going to bed (if OT) I just go in, maybe put a hand on her chest for a minute, say night night again and leave.  It sometimes takes a few times but she goes to sleep easier this way.  Haha - it took me a while to realise she just didnt want me to pick her up.

X

[TurboMum]

Oh really? Is that soo? I really couldn't understand him as one minute he wants me (he cries when I put him down in cot) and one minute he doesn't (he wriggles and pushes me away when holding him)... I was really getting upset many times... 

So I should leave him even if he cries? For a couple of minutes and then go back in? Even in the middle of the night? I'm afraid he wakes DH up as he needs to go to work...what is the best of doing this at night then?  DS cries really LOUD! Oh dear... his cry is heartbreaking as if saying mummy doesn't want him any more...

Thanks, T xx